In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews co-founder and CEO of Journey Clinical, Jonathan Sabbagh.
Journey Clinical is a telehealth platform specializing in remote and in-person ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, but what makes them a bit unique is their larger focus on the needs of the psychotherapist, by helping approved psychotherapists integrate KAP into their practices, and by building out a platform to facilitate the delivery of customized treatments of all modalities to their patients under the same umbrella – the idea being that more specialized treatments can lead to more patient progress and less therapist burnout, which is a bigger problem than many people realize.
Sabbagh tells the story of his own burnout after 20 years in finance, which led to ayahuasca and a career change, and discusses data privacy; why ketamine is just an adjunct; how Journey’s process works; the importance of building a safe container (in therapy and digitally); wearables and the future of combined tools; what he’s most excited about; what it meant to see his company’s banner hanging at Horizons; and why it’s important to have a growing industry be led by true believers.
Notable Quotes
“I think people don’t talk about this enough – about the impact of being with patients who are stuck and who are not progressing in their therapy for years – and that’s really a big driver of therapist burnout. And we’ve had people work with patients who were stuck, really stagnant in their progress, have a few ketamine sessions and have major breakthroughs at a reasonably low dose, and say, ‘Wow, this person has never been so open, this has changed the psychotherapy.’ And that really re-energizes them and I think that is just really wonderful.”
“People are looking for ways to feel better, mental health isn’t taboo anymore. And so I think that as we progress, we’ve got technology, psychedelics, there’s a lot of work being pushed forward, openness to mindfulness-based practices; and I think they’re all going to support each other.”
“I think one of the beauties of the stage where we’re at in our industry (and also the nature of our industry) is that it’s still believers that are building it out. And so we’re all figuring ourselves out a little bit but we care about doing this. We’ve got a personal stake and personal experience into it and I think that’s true for the majority of people involved.”
Jonathan Sabbagh the co-founder and CEO of Journey Clinical. He spent the first 20 years of his professional career working in finance, where he occupied a variety of roles including building two businesses from the ground up. While building one of them, he suffered a burnout that was the result of undiagnosed post-traumatic stress disorder. After being heavily medicated, suffering from substance abuse issues, and undergoing a lot of psychotherapy, Jonathan finally found relief in a series of traditional ayahuasca ceremonies and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy; experiences where he discovered he needed to lead a more integrated life and to be in service to others. He quit finance and went back to school to study clinical psychology. While he was on his path to becoming a clinician, he felt the need to integrate his background as an entrepreneur with his long-term goal of becoming a psychedelic therapist in order to expand access to psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. This is the genesis of how Journey Clinical was born.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Tryp Therapeutics, Greg McKee.
Tryp Therapeutics, a fairly young, early-stage biotech company, is focusing on nociplastic pain (the hard-to-explain pain where nothing seems physiologically wrong, but a nerve signal related to pain seems to be stuck in the “on” position) and how it could be alleviated through the rewiring often possible in the psychedelic experience. They are first looking at psychedelics for chronic pain and eating disorders, and when this podcast was recorded, had just received FDA clearance to begin a fibromyalgia study at the University of Michigan (with studies on phantom limb pain, complex regional pain syndrome, binge eating disorder, and hypothalamic obesity likely coming after). They are also working on a psilocybin derivative-based novel compound and novel route of administration/protocol, possibly with the ability to stop a difficult trip when necessary.
McKee discusses the origins of Tryp, the benefits of using synthetics, 5-MeO-DMT, how the Nixon administration killed research progress, the positives to take away from Compass Pathways’ preliminary psilocybin Phase 2B trial results, MAPS and possible insurance models, Robin Carhart-Harris, why a lot of early psychedelic investors may be mistakenly panicking, and the idea of insurance covering the treatment of a patient for a period of time rather than number of visits.
Notable Quotes
“We think that there’s a huge opportunity to unleash the full potential of psychedelics, well beyond traditional mood disorders.” “It’s a fascinating field, no doubt. There’s a lot to be learned and there’s still a lot more questions, frankly, than answers. That’s the thing that’s really quite surprising. I mean, I’ve been on a learning curve [and] I got right to the edge fast, because I realized, ‘Oh shit, nobody has the answers to these questions.’”
“The thing about synthetic is that it just allows you not only to have consistency and all that that we just [talked] about, but it allows you to scale so you can impact so many other people’s lives. So it is a little bit of a pain in the backside to go through this process, and I can totally get why certain people are saying, ‘Hey, why do we need the pharma industry to do this?’, but on the other hand, if life science investors and biotech and pharma companies do get involved and push this through to market; boy, you’re going to be able to treat so many more patients.”
Greg McKee serves as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Tryp Therapeutics. Greg has served in executive management positions for more than 20 years. He started his career in life sciences with Genzyme before serving as Chairman and CEO of publicly traded Nventa Biopharmaceuticals. Greg also served as CEO of CONNECT, a startup accelerator, and as Co-founder and Managing Director of Torrent Ventures. Greg earned a BA in economics from the University of Washington, an MA in international studies from the University of Pennsylvania, and an MBA from the Wharton School. He has worked in Tokyo for seven years and has been a member of YPO since 2006.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe revisits the topic of religion and psychedelics touched on last week in PT280, but this time, much more in depth, with two guests of different religions: Rabbi Zac Kamenetz and The Rev. Hunt Priest.
Kamenetz and Priest both had catalyzing psychedelic experiences as participants in research studies, and after gaining interest, noticed that their religions weren’t referenced much in psychedelic literature. They’re each working to build a broad network of leaders and academics who are Jewish (through Zac’s website, Shefa) or Christian (through Hunt’s site, Ligare) to act as psychedelic societies and encourage more people to buy in, be more open, and embrace the renaissance. Do these communities know enough to properly frame and integrate their experiences when they add psilocybin to Seder? What are the best protocols in which to authentically blend in religious tradition and lessons? Is their true purpose to help others use religion to explain mystical and psychedelic experiences? Or use mystical and psychedelic experiences to explain religion?
They also discuss the differences between how Christianity and Judaism talks about psychedelics; the Jewish Psychedelic Summit; why Christianity seems to be so far behind; the minimization of mystical experiences; the concepts of spiritual harm reduction and spiritual literacy; the need for accountability and “bumpers” in religion; Rick Strassman, DMT, and prophecy; how religious tokens and symbols in psychedelic-assisted therapy can traumatize or influence an intended experience; what religions can do in situations of spiritual emergency; and why serving others should be part of the integration experience.
Notable Quotes
“There is a very vibrant Christian conversation. It’s just quiet. It’s too quiet, really.” -Hunt
“When more people are having transpersonal experiences – ‘The All! The Nothing!’, them existing beyond their body and their consciousness – people are going to be looking for answers to their questions, more questions to their questions, and then these traditions that sadly, people are walking away from for all sorts of reasons (maybe good reasons, even), that we’re going to have to then present meaningful models, responsive models to their quandaries. That, really, I feel, is the heart of the work.” -Zac “It would probably have taken 10 more years of Vipassana meditation to get to where I was six hours into my psilocybin experience. And people will say, ‘Well that’s a spiritual shortcut.’ And I mean, at least in Christianity, we say none of this comes because we work hard for it; it comes as a grace and a gift, and take it. Take it and go with it, and then change your life because of it.” -Hunt
“This is multi-prong, multi-experience, multi-community [thing]. It’s not going to just be the psychological community, it’s not just going to be the hospice/end-of-life community, it’s not just going to be the party community, it’s not going to just be the religious community. It’s going to be all of us, I hope, moving forward together for the healing of the world.” -Hunt
“It’s interesting to figure out the ways in which you integrate these plants and fungi and substance/compounds into Jewish ritual, but I think there’s also, then, the opportunity to think about, like: Okay, what’s the role of preparation here? Like, if I steep myself in Jewish wisdom, is a ‘Jewish experience’ going to emerge? …The idea of set and setting then becomes a really interesting one. What is a Jewish mindset and are we actually interested in trying to fill people with content in order that they have an experience come out? …We don’t want, necessarily, to fill people with Hebrew music or words or ideas. We want the medicine and the inner healing intelligence to do that work. And then, really, what is the role of clergy there? Just to witness, just to support? ‘What are we doing and whose experience is being had?’ I think, is a really important question.” -Zac
Zac Kamenetz is a rabbi, community leader, and aspiring psychedelic-assisted chaplain based in Berkeley, CA. He holds an MA in Biblical literature and languages from UC Berkeley and the Graduate Theological Union and received rabbinic ordination in 2012. As the founder and CEO of Shefa, Zac is pioneering a movement to integrate safe and supported psychedelic use into the Jewish spiritual tradition, advocate for individuals and communities to heal individual and inherited trauma, and inspire a Jewish religious and creative renaissance in the 21st century.
About Hunt Priest
Hunt Priest is an Episcopal priest and the founding Executive Director of Ligare: A Christian Psychedelic Society, a non-profit network of Christian leaders educating themselves and those they lead about the intersection of open-hearted Christianity and the Psychedelic Renaissance. A participant in a psilocybin study in early 2016, he had two life-changing mystical experiences under the care of a research team. His encounters with psilocybin opened him to the healing and consciousness-raising power of psychedelic medicines and changed the landscape of his work. Hunt believes the healing power of psychedelics should be in the toolkits of all who are healers of bodies, minds, and souls, and can’t wait to provide access for legal, safe, and guided experiences in a Christian setting. This past April, Hunt took an extended break from full-time parish ministry to expand his priesthood out into the emerging psychedelic landscape.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Clinical Professor at the University of Florida, College of Pharmacy: Oliver Grundmann, Ph.D.
While Grundmann’s focus is the neuropharmacology of natural products in general (especially those with potential for dependence), this episode is entirely about a substance that has been mentioned on the podcast, but never fully dissected: Mitragyna speciosa – otherwise known as kratom.
And they cover it all: What to look for when purchasing kratom; possible risk factors and drug interactions; the contaminants most often seen; its history with the FDA; its safety profile; what the veins mean when people describe kratom as “red vein;” what is being researched today; what an alkaloid is; how to safely explore kratom and monitor dosing; what the future could hold; and of course, the science behind how it works. Get ready for mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine, and the μ-opioid receptor to be part of your vernacular!
Grundmann is currently analyzing Top Tree Herbs‘ products to see how they differ from others, specifically looking at how much mitragynine people are actually getting when drinking a tea dissolved in water (vs. levels from the whole plant dissolved in methanol, which most current research shows). He believes more real world evidence could help push kratom in the direction of being considered a dietary supplement. If you use kratom and want to add to the conversation, you can fill out his questionnaire here.
Notable Quotes
“You tell the FDA something acts on the opioid receptor and they see, immediately: Oh my gosh, we’ve got something else that might contribute to the opioid epidemic. I think that was kind of the concern of the FDA, which is a legitimate concern, but I think, as you pointed out; there is more to the story. You need to look at the whole picture.”
“If somebody who has used alcohol for years in advance is then using kratom and shows signs of liver injury or failing liver, then contributing that to relatively recent kratom use appears to be a stretch. But yet, it is being done in the literature.”
“It doesn’t necessarily always have to be an illicit use of the drug. It can be that somebody was completely, legitimately prescribed an opioid (a benzodiazepine) and then they did not feel adequate symptom relief and they added kratom to it. And the self-treatment of kratom then resulted in a potential drug interaction that led to a fatality. Does that mean that kratom was the causative agent? That is the problem, since we do not know exactly what the effects of kratom are.”
Dr. Oliver Grundmann is a clinical professor at the University of Florida, College of Pharmacy. He serves as the Director of the graduate programs in Pharmaceutical Chemistry and Clinical Toxicology, is a fellow of the American College of Clinical Pharmacology, and his primary research interest is centered on the neuropharmacology of natural products, especially substances with potential for tolerance and dependence development. He has authored over 75 publications, 5 book chapters, and given over 40 presentations at national and international conferences. Dr. Grundmann obtained his BS in Pharmacy from the Westfälische-Wilhelms-Universität Münster in Germany, and his Ph.D. in Pharmaceutical Sciences, MS in Forensic Toxicology, and MEd from the University of Florida. He has been teaching on the subject of natural products, drug abuse, forensic & clinical toxicology, and pharmaceutical sciences for the past 13 years.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews D.C.-based attorney, Executive Director of the Association of Entheogenic Practitioners (AEP), and Guardian of the Temple of Mother Earth, Danny Peterson.
He discusses the work of the AEP, which he describes as similar to a bar association for practitioners in this space (facilitators, shamans, guides, sitters, etc.), with a code of ethics, best practices guide for facilitation, and efforts to continually improve the psychedelic-assisted therapy experience through what he calls “community building practicums.”
They talk about psychedelics, religion, and freedom in the United States; where we are in the “forming, storming, norming, performing” process; how much culture has changed in the last year due to Covid and a blossoming virtual world; Phish; the iron law of prohibition; the need for 10,000 entheogenic churches; and the classic questions we ask ourselves when analyzing our most powerful experiences and the communities we experience them in: Is this religious? Is this spiritual?
This is a bit of a hybrid Solidarity Fridays episode as well, with Joe and Kyle having a brief chat first. As one should in an episode coming out on New Year’s Eve (Happy New Years, everyone!), they reflect back a bit on the year and look to the future, with two brief, but huge announcements: 1) They just recorded a podcast with Stan and Brigitte Grof (!!!); and 2) In March, Psychedelics Today is launching a 12-month certification program called Vital. You’re going to hear a lot more about it, but learn more and join the waitlist now at vitalpsychedelictraining.com.
Notable Quotes
“[I] learned about the UDV and Santo Daime cases that had gone through the federal courts and came to be of the opinion that while the people who are clearly protected by religious freedom in the United States is a pretty small group, the people who should be protected is much bigger than that. And that is the community that I’ve been seeking to serve.”
“I might be wrong in this – I don’t know the Consciousness Medicine community. But merely watching this situation from a distance, something that’s interesting to me about this moment in time is that it doesn’t seem that any part of the conversation is about whether anyone is likely to be arrested for being involved in psychedelic work. That is the unusual thing here. We’re talking about this openly and it’s not about whether the DEA is going to come knocking.”
“The initiative (81) didn’t so much change the law in D.C., as it recognized what’s already happening. It was already the lowest law enforcement priority to deal with entheogenic plants and fungi. Now we’re saying that it is and it should be. That’s what we’ve said as a city. And in a way, I guess that’s the analogy that I’m going for here: This is already religious, now we’re just saying so.”
“Music, psychedelics, [and] community at the same time: How can we see that as not a religious or spiritual activity? …I’m not trying to get Phish a religious exemption or anything, but there’s something there that’s under-discussed and under-investigated.” -Joe
Danny Peterson is a founding member and the Executive Director of the Association of Entheogenic Practitioners (aep.community), a religious professional organization and mutual aid society that promotes safe access to entheogenic experiences. In 2014, Dan began participating in entheogenic ceremonies to address lifelong struggles with depression. He has since completed over 200 hours of training in entheogenic practice and currently serves as a Guardian of the Temple of Mother Earth in Washington, DC. Dan is also licensed to practice law in Maryland and the District of Columbia, and has served as an outside general counsel to emerging organizations for more than ten years.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe finally sits down with two of the three hosts of another fellow long-running psychedelics podcast, Entheogen: Joe Zap and Kevin W.
They discuss the early days of smoking cannabis, Joe’s Ismokeweed.org t-shirts, and seeing people realize cannabis and other drugs may be ok if done responsibly; the problems with dosing due to Nixon and the drug war; Hulu’s “Nine Perfect Strangers” and their mention of “psilocybin withdrawal”; the early stages of podcasting; Timothy Leary; Alex Grey and leadership by example; Burning Man; gurus and cults; social media, QAnon, and conspiratorial thinking; why recreational drug use should be talked about more; ego dissolution vs. ego amplification; competition vs. cooperation; and what it was like being quoted in a Playboy article about toxic masculinity (written by PT friend Michelle Janikian).
After a self-imposed year and a half break from the podcast, they are back at it, with a new episode just released today, featuring David Bronner, CEO of Dr. Bronner’s Magic Soaps. Check it out at Entheogenshow.com or watch the video on YouTube here.
Notable Quotes
“One of the first times I ever ate a pot cookie, I was wearing one of Joe’s t-shirts (so [it said] Ismokeweed.org – you know, this is the worst thing you could be wearing in public) and I remember running into your Dad. And I’m just off my face on a cookie with an Ismokeweed.org shirt on. I’m just like, ‘I think I just became the person I was warned about.’” -Kevin
“The drug war, for like 50 years: one of the worst side effects of it is you don’t know what you’re getting or how much you’re taking. It’s horrendous. That’s the opposite of what you want with any kind of strong medicine.” -Joe “For me, there’s absolutely no situation in which LSD is not appropriate. It just depends how much of it you take.” -Kevin “There’s this whole ‘in’ group/’out’ group thing, and, ‘Do your own research.’ Like, the more obscure the website is [and] the more of a weird corner of the internet you can find; somehow, ironically, paradoxically, the more you believe that, somehow. I get questioning authority (speaking of Timothy Leary – you know, ‘Think for yourself, question authority’). Good advice. Question authority. It doesn’t mean reject authority. Skepticism is not the same thing as contrarianism.” -Joe
“Why are we doing this? We’re trying to help society, we’re trying to help ourselves have a more durable society. We’re on the cusp of falling apart – I think it’s kind of clear at this point to almost anyone paying attention. Let’s not let it fall apart. Let’s work together, put all the resources in, all the money. That’s great you can profit. That’s great, but let’s do it so that we can continue to have an enduring society and human civilization as we know it.” -Joe
Joe Zap spent over two years living nomadically, traveling the Western U.S. and working remotely in a camper van with his wife, Ashleigh, before relocating to Boulder, Colorado in the middle of 2020. His full-time livelihood is Apple technology consulting, having owned and run a technology consultancy since 2004 while being an Advisory Council Member of the Apple Consultants Network. In 2013, Joe founded Command Control Power, an Apple consulting podcast with over 400 weekly episodes and counting. After his first Burning Man in 2014, Joe co-founded another podcast, called Entheogen, with two good friends, Kevin and Brad. Joe has been a lifelong supporter of the psychedelic renaissance, having volunteered for and supported organizations including: CoSM, Chapel of Sacred Mirrors; MAPS, Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies; MPP, Marijuana Policy Project, and others.
About Kevin W
Kevin W is a Co- host of Entheogen show, avid Burner and devout believer in the science of Psychedelics.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we tried to have a 2-parter, but like many things in 2021, that just didn’t quite go as planned. Hopefully, the Compass Pathways patent analysis (with patent attorney Stefan J. Kirchanski) can be re-recorded for a future episode. Stay tuned…
In the part that was successfully recorded, Joe and Kyle highlight some recent news: most notably the emergence of the Natural Medicine Healing Act, which will allow Colorado voters to decide whether or not to legalize possession and personal cultivation of ibogaine, DMT, non-peyote-derived mescaline, psilocybin, and psilocyn up to 4 grams (of the actual drug, meaning 4 grams of psilocybin, not 4 grams of mushrooms containing psilocybin), as well as establish “healing centers,” where adults could receive treatment from trained facilitators.
They then cover the University of Texas’ Dell Medical School opening a center to study psychedelics, YouTube user Psyched Substance’s recent admission that his drug use had gotten out of hand and he has quit everything, and Colorado health leaders working to establish specific guidelines around how police, paramedics, and EMTs handle ketamine – which obviously needs to happen after Elijah McClain’s 2019 death from being forcibly given entirely too much.
Also discussed: drug exceptionalism, Carl Hart, Run Ronnie Run!, and how much having family involved in ketamine-assisted therapy could help with the process (even if they have absolutely no understanding of it).
Notable Quotes
“Yes, decriminalizing psychedelic compounds is a step in the right direction. To me, it’s not a holistic step, because we’re still putting people in jail.” -Joe “We do need situations like this with really weird drugs like ketamine. …Are the authorities using it properly? And I think this is a good sign that, in some cases, even though it’s years late, we can improve drug policy.” -Joe
“You have this massive transcendent experience. Who’s to say your friends, family, and people you’re around are going to have any way to relate to that, especially a way that’s positive for you?” -Joe
In this episode of the podcast, Joe sits down for the very rare multi-guest podcast, this time with four: teacher and author, Ayize Jama-Everett; LMFT, certified sex therapist, owner and operator of Doorway Therapeutic Services, Courtney Watson; LMFT at Doorway Therapeutic Services, Leticia Brown; and activist and facilitator, Kufikiri Imara.
The group has come together to create A Table of our Own: a for-Black-people by-Black-people psychedelic conference and corresponding documentary. While noticing how often it seemed members of the BIPOC community were being used to check off a diversity box for grant money, they decided that before they were another guest at someone else’s table, it was time for them to gather at their own table and figure out exactly what they want out of this “so-called psychedelic renaissance” first.
They talk about why a Black conference is needed and what it could look like; how affinity groups create safety; the ease in communication and connection when having shared experience; the problems with modern, performative-based psychiatry; and why it’s true that when Black people win, everyone wins. And reflecting on some of the recent abuse allegations, they also discuss abuse in the psychedelic space: how abusers always learn from abusers, how communities learn from the behavior of elders, how guidelines for facilitators and therapists are drastically oversimplified, and how we all need to recognize our own ability to cause harm.
A Table of our Own is happy to take donations, but only if you’re in it for the right reasons (i.e. you aren’t filling a quota or need your company’s banner hanging at the event). And if you’re someone who understands affinity groups but the idea of a Black-only event feels like segregation (like many felt when Nicholas Powers talked about a Black Burning Man), definitely check this one out.
Notable Quotes
“There’s a lot of ‘We want you at our table, we want you at our table,’ but as people of color, we’re not a freaking monolith. We haven’t sat at our table. We haven’t shared our stories, the positive and the negative. We haven’t collaborated on what’s going to do best for our communities. We haven’t had those conversations. And so the conference is about: Let’s just sit together and talk. Where are we at? How are you feeling? What’s going on? What do you need? Do you need a hug? Can you get fed? Can you be comforted? Can I hear your knowledge? Are you willing to share yours? Can we get that back-and-forth going? And then once we have that; well, let’s document that, because not everybody’s going to be able to come to this. What we need to show is: Hey, this is how we do.” -Ayize
“For survival purposes, because of the nature of historical precedents, we have to adjust who we are for the environment that we’re in for survival, understanding that there are those in the same society that expect the environment to change to them because that is the way things have been set up. So when we’re in an environment of a Black experience of people of the African diaspora, understanding that that’s not something we have to do in that space (like the others said, around being policed and thus having to police themselves); there’s a uniqueness around that.” -Kufikiri
“The harm comes in in ways of presenting itself as some authoritative model around good and bad, right and wrong; yet misses so much of the harms that exist in society that are navigated by those in marginalized communities (especially those in Black bodies and Western colonial spaces) that don’t account for that aspect of someone’s identity, but yet is looking to work with someone around what their identity is. So that harm is a very real one. …How do you know your worth and your value in a space if you’re always being compared to someone that does not look like you or does not have your experience?” -Kufikiri
“Black folks, when we’re in spaces together; we’re not all sitting around talking about our trauma. We are often just connecting with each other and laughing with each other and holding each other. So this conference is also a space where we can heal through play and joy and movement and dance and everything about how we navigate the world that brings so much flavor, including the joy. Black joy is a whole other kind of medicine that is always present when we gather.” -Leticia
Ayize Jama-Everett (b. NYC 1974) has been in various relationships with plants, substances, and communities since his birth. Born into the Black Power movement’s conflicts, Ayize comes from the lineage of the Lincoln Detox project, a community organization in Harlem, New York, that taught the formerly incarcerated to use acupuncture to help with heroin withdrawal. At sixteen, he traveled to Morocco and was taken in by the Gnawa and was privileged to join their rituals. Ayize served as the director of Outpatient services for Thunder Road Adolescent Treatment center for three years before joining Catholic Charities of Treasure Island as the substance use and mental health services manager. He’s worked in both abstinence and harm reduction modalities. He also served as a high school therapist for over a decade.
Ayize Graduated from the Graduate Theological Union in 2001 with a Master’s of Divinity. His thesis was on the spiritual use of substances among the homeless youth of Morocco, London, and the Bay Area. Soon after, he began teaching the Course “The Sacred and the Substance,” one of the first survey courses of sacred plant use at the Graduate Theological Union. In 2003, Ayize received a Masters degree in Clinical psychology from New College of California. In 2019, he received a Masters in Fine Arts, Creative Writing, from The University of California, Riverside. He is the author of four books, and his shorter works can be found in The L.A. Review of Books, The Wakanda Dream labs, The Believer, and Racebaitr. As an African-American male, Ayize’s focus has been consistently on underrepresented communities in the sacred plant community.
About Courtney Watson, LMFT
Courtney Watson is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and AASECT Certified Sex therapist. She is the owner of Doorway Therapeutic Services, a group therapy practice in Oakland, CA focused on addressing the mental health needs of Black, Indigenous & People of Color, Queer folks, Trans, Gender Non-conforming, Non binary and Two Spirit individuals. Courtney has followed the direction of her ancestors to incorporate psychedelic assisted therapy into her offerings for folks with multiple marginalized identities and stresses the importance of BIPOC and Queer providers offering these services. Courtney has received training from the Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research at CIIS, MAPS and Polaris Insight Center to provide psychedelic-assisted therapy with a variety of medicines.
She is deeply interested in the impact of psychedelic medicines on folks with marginalized identities as well as how they can assist with the decolonization process for folx of the global majority. She believes this field is not yet ready to address the unique needs of Communities of Color and is prepared and enthusiastic about bridging the gap. She is currently blazing the trail as one of the only clinics of predominantly QTBIPOC providers offering Ketamine Assisted Therapy in 2021. She has founded a non-profit, Access to Doorways, to raise funds to subsidize the cost of ketamine/psychedelic-assisted therapy for QTBIPOC clients (now accepting donations for our first 100 recipients!!).
About Leticia Brown, LMFT
Leticia Brown (she/her/hers) is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Black queer femme whose practice engages various healing modalities at the intersections of harm reduction, sexuality and social justice. She prioritizes work with BIPOC & QTNBIPOC communities through a liberatory lens that values communual interdependence and affirms the inner healer we all hold within. Constantly exploring ways to decolonize her relationship to healing, she incorporates intergenerational exploration, spirituality, ritual, the use of the body, and reconnection to intuition in her practice, and sees her role as co-creator with those she walks beside on their healing journeys.
Leticia has been trained in a variety of Psychedelic-assisted Therapy modalities, including Ketamine-assisted Psychotherapy trainings with Sage Institute, Polaris Insight Center, Healing Realms and Doorway Therapeutic Services, where she maintains a small private practice. Leticia was also a trainee of MAPS’ first-ever MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy Therapy Training for Communities of Color, in August of 2019. Additionally, she is a therapist with the MAPS expanded access program, using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for treating severe PTSD. In her harm reduction consulting and training, Leticia encourages both self-introspection and challenging discourse. In her work supporting therapists with engagement of anti-racist and decolonizing practices, she aims to offer a sense of groundedness and purpose to the work. In her work with clients and therapists around issues of sexuality and (other) altered states of consciousness, she holds a sociopolitical lens, and aims to cultivate a safe relationship to the body. In all of this work, Leticia aims to be guided by Fannie Lou Hamer’s mantra that “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free”, particularly in her work with QTBIPOC folx.
About Kufikiri Imara
Kufikiri Imarawas born and raised on Huichin territory of the Ohlone people (Oakland, California). With parents that were involved in the Civil Rights and Black Power movements of the 1960s and 1970s, he grew up in a family and community that strongly emphasized cultural awareness and social responsibility. He volunteered with Green Earth Poets Society in NYC, bringing poetry to incarcerated African-American youth. He was an early member of the Entheogen Integration Circle in NYC, supporting marginalized communities. He is a friend of Sacred Garden Community as a facilitator. A former member of the Decriminalize Nature Oakland grassroots collective, he went on to head the DNO committee on Outreach, Education, Access, & Integration. He lent his voice to the Horizons Media documentary film “Covid-19, Black Lives, & Psychedelics.” He also facilitates a BIPOC Entheogen Integration Circle with the San Francisco Psychedelic Society. Kufikiri Imara is a voice championing the important issues of access, education, and inclusion within the larger psychedelic community.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down for an old fashioned freestyle session, taking a macro dive into microdosing.
Inspired by their conversation with James Fadiman from a few weeks ago, they discuss all things microdosing: Why people are doing it, what they’re using, possible negative effects, how it could work with pain (pain management and/or neurogenesis), what other indications it could help, how research studies are pretty limited (yet very polarizing), how other life variables are likely at play when microdosing, and how the classic self-blinding study that many deemed the death knell for microdosing should actually be seen as the beginning of a long road of research.
Joe then shares an Instagram post from author Kelly Starrett that sarcastically showcases the problems with physical therapy in a careless healthcare system, which leads to a conversation about how one decides what a good outcome is in mental health therapy: What are the patient’s goals and how do they differ from those of the therapist (or insurer)? How do you measure progress? Can we avoid a model of “therapy forever”? And they discuss the problems with self-scoring, high cocaine use being linked to strokes, the coaching industry, chronic pain, Star Trek, and reconsidering the use of the word, “overdose.”
Notable Quotes
“This thing needs to be a long conversation. This isn’t one study and done because [Balázs Szigeti and David Erritzoe] did that self-blinded, self-reported study with a lot of samples. That’s not the end of the story. That’s the beginning of the story.” -Joe
“It would be interesting to get some data around somebody’s day. How are they actually creating their day? Are they starting off with an intention that this is going to help them? [Are] they putting a lot of value on it? Are they doing any meditation once they take their microdose? Are they engaging in any sort of ritual? Anything to enhance that? …What type of role do those other extracurricular activities play in enhancing wellbeing? …Is it the microdosing or is it actually the whole day and the activities that you’re engaging in and your mindset around: ‘This is going to be helpful for me’?” -Kyle
“I think we have to thank microdosing quite a bit for where we are in psychedelics today (no pun intended).” -Joe “Don’t just shut the door on microdosing. Understand [this] thing is really complex and we don’t know much yet. But some people? It’s fucking saving their lives.” -Joe
In this episode of the podcast (recorded in-person at Horizons NYC), Kyle sits down with Founder and Managing Director of Vine Ventures, Ryan Zurrer.
After witnessing the work at his wife’s ayahuasca retreat center in Peru and seeing the emergence of psychedelics for healing as a new paradigm, Zurrer noticed a strong aversion to for-profit companies and venture capital in general, so part of the mission of Vine Ventures (an early-stage venture fund focused on psychedelics) is to change that. He talks about their Vine Reciprocity Pledge (where 50% of GP Carry is donated to nonprofits specializing in what they refer to as “conscious health and wellness”), their Knowledge Preservation Project (which aims to catalog Indigenous knowledge through interviews and recordings), and their most recent news: the announcement that they have created a SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle (essentially a subsidiary company)) with MAPS to infuse $70 million into patient access infrastructure and research for MDMA-assisted therapy.
He explains the ins and outs of this agreement and how it will benefit MAPS and the future of psychedelic medicine, as well as their upcoming projects with NFTs. He also discusses how any capital coming into psychedelics is beneficial, how the future of psychedelics is in community and figuring out how to expand the use of naturals without affecting the environment, and how the new spiritual-but-not-religious, “California sober” way of life could (and maybe should) be considered a religion.
Notable Quotes
“Putting MAPS out in front first will allow a thousand entrepreneurial flowers to bloom over the next decade in the long shadow of a drug patent. And I think that that’s really inspiring for investors who want to continue to support this space [and] I think it’s really inspiring for entrepreneurs who now have an avenue to carve out value in the space for their in-city clinic in a city that is not New York or LA or try something new that they couldn’t. Now there will be more value available because a pharmaceutical company isn’t hoovering up all the value in the space.” “What platforms were to the 2000s and networks were to the 2010s, communities will be to the 2020s in venture. So the most valuable organizations that will emerge in the 2020s will be ones that are the most valuable communities.”
“I generally believe that when venture capital is applied correctly, it seeks to create great value from solving the world’s biggest problems. I can think of no other problem on planet Earth than the mental health crisis that we’ve unleashed onto our society. And I come at that knowing the global warming problem very intuitively. I spent a decade in renewables, and spoiler alert: we’ve actually solved global warming, it’s just a matter of deploying the technologies. Mental health, we have not solved. Very far from it.”
“All the things that religion historically provided – a sense of community, a sense of belonging, a sort of social safety net, a sense of something greater than yourself – all these things we seem to really want as a society and as individuals right now, but then have this great aversion to whatever would be classified as religion.”
Ryan Zurrer, a venture investor and entrepreneur for 16 years, is the Founder and Managing Director of Vine Ventures, an early-stage venture fund focused on psychedelics. He is also the Co-Founder and Director of Dialectic, a family office with a focus on alternative asset management. Ryan has consistently delivered extraordinary returns through a decade in venture. Previously, he held senior roles deploying utility-scale renewables globally.
He is an avid biohacker and was an early contributing member to the Quantified Self Movement in the early 2000s. Ryan was a seed investor in some of the best performing venture investments of the 2010s including MakerDAO, Ethereum, Polychain Capital, and a host of other companies. He launched Polychain’s private investment activities and is considered the creator of the SAFT. He led Polychain Capital’s investment team and was instrumental in delivering Polychain’s 2017 returns (in excess of 28X net of fees to LPs).
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we’re featuring another split podcast of recordings from Wonderland (we really recorded a lot there, huh?).
In part 1, David interviews psychiatrist, researcher, drug policy reform advocate, and Co-founder and Chief Medical Officer of Awakn Life Sciences, Dr. Ben Sessa. They discuss their frustration with the current maintenance-medication state of psychiatry and addiction treatment, how much we (and doctors!) have all been brainwashed by decades of drug war propaganda, and drug policy in the UK (with a quote that rivals any rant Joe has ever gone on!). And they discuss the impressive results from the world’s first MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study to treat alcohol-use disorder, ibogaine, and what they’re looking to research next: behavioral disorders like addictions to gambling, sex, and pornography.
In part 2, Kyle and David speak with cannabis industry entrepreneur and now Director, CEO, and Chairman of Mydecine Innovations Group, Josh Bartch. Mydecine is a biopharmaceutical company developing new compounds, the most notable being MYCO-001, which will be used in the first NIDA-funded study in nearly 50 years: a smoking cessation study being conducted across 3 Universities and headed up by Dr. Matthew Johnson. Bartch talks about their app, Mindleap Health, an educational media platform featuring hundreds of hours of interviews, guided meditations, and other patient-focused ancillary services, which also has 155 specialists of various types (with plans to add A.I.-informed technology to match users to specialists). He discusses the amazing efficacy of psilocybin (with therapy) on smoking cessation, how structural changes in molecules can affect half-life, microdosing (on which they’re also running an exploratory study), and the importance he places on reframing how psychedelics are viewed to inspire greater public adoption.
Notable Quotes
“I can’t think of any other branch of medicine that would accept the kind of outcomes that we do in psychiatry. I often talk about this; how psychiatry is this fairly desperate, lonely place to work. We don’t cure our patients. We don’t use that word, ‘cure.’ We get alongside them in a palliative care way and just patch them up with daily maintenance drugs. And the truth is, if you’re going in to see a psychiatrist in your early twenties with a severe anxiety-based disorder like PTSD or any addiction or depression or anxiety, there’s a pretty good chance you’ll be talking to that psychiatrist in your 60s or 70s. That is not good enough after a hundred years of modern psychiatry. And the reason being is that we’ve been trapped in this top-down, biological model for the last 40 or 50 years, giving people daily maintenance drugs, papering over the cracks, but never getting to the core.” -Ben Sessa
“Psychedelics are the most effective, innovative, creative form of psychopharmacology we’ve had for a hundred years in psychiatry. They really do now offer us a chance to change, completely, the paradigm by which we manage mental illness.” -Ben Sessa “I remember 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when I was a junior doctor, telling my tutors that I wanted to work in psychedelics, and they said, ‘You’re crazy. This is career suicide. This is just a bunch of crazy fringe hippies. Why are you getting involved in this?’ Well, I can tell you now: This is not crazy, fringe hippies. This is cutting edge neuroscience. This is cutting edge clinical psychiatry. Every single major clinical research institution in the world now has psychedelic programs running. This is not the fringe. This is where it’s at. Get involved.” -Ben Sessa
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“When do you see success? For us, success in this industry is when this is offered in already-existing traditional medical and therapy settings and offered as a frontline treatment, not in a secondary psychedelic center or this unique infrastructure that’s being built. When it’s integrated into the actual, already-existing frontline medical community, that’s when we really think that’s a win for all of us.” -Josh Bartch
“If people’s goal, collectively, is to really bring these different molecules (which is what they are) and treatment modalities to the public and to treat large suffering populations, we need to change the context of how they’re portrayed publicly. So the whole ‘magic mushrooms’ [term] or anything that has a recreational context that has been negatively portrayed over years needs to be eliminated, and we need to kind of reboot that public perception and really take it from a recreational context that has tons of negative press and publicity and makes people scared and nervous to use it as a real treatment, and change that messaging to: ‘These are really safe, effective molecules that are showing tons of promise to really change the paradigm.’” -Josh Bartch
Dr. Ben Sessa’s joint interests in psychotherapy, pharmacology, and trauma have led him towards researching the subject of drug-assisted psychotherapy using psychedelic adjuncts. In the last 15 years, he has been part of scientific and clinical studies administering LSD, psilocybin, ketamine, MDMA and DMT to patients and volunteers. He is the author of psychedelic medical exploration books; The Psychedelic Renaissance (2012 and 2017) and To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic (2015). He has recently completed research with Imperial College London exploring the world’s first MDMA-assisted therapy trial for the treatment of Alcohol Dependence Syndrome. Alongside Prof. David Nutt, Ben has also been a long term advocate of drug policy reform in the UK, believing that current laws hamper research and increase, rather than reduce, the burden of problematic drug use on individuals and society. Ben also has specialist training as a child and adolescent psychiatrist and is interested in the developmental trajectory from child maltreatment to adult mental health disorders, including adult addictions.
About Josh Bartch
Josh Bartch is Director, Chief Executive Officer, and Chairman of Mydecine Innovations Group (MIG). Mr. Bartch’s entrepreneurial career took off in 2009 when he co-founded AudioTranscriptionist.com and founded the Denver-based dispensary, Doctors Orders. Following these ventures, Mr. Bartch founded a boutique investment firm that operated throughout the U.S. and Canadian markets. In 2014, Bartch co-founded Cannabase.io, the U.S.’s most significant legal and sophisticated cannabis wholesale platform. Mr. Bartch took successful exits from AudioTranscriptionist.com, Doctor’s Orders, and Cannabase.io.
In this episode, Joe interviews seventeen year veteran of federal policy, past Navigating Psychedelics student, and founder of Healing Equity and Liberation (HEAL) Organization, Micah Haskell-Hoehl.
Haskell-Hoehl talks about growing up in Pittsburg and seeing disparities in how the school system treated him in comparison with people of color, discovering psychedelics and their healing potential, his path to federal policy and creating HEAL Organization, and his realization that psychedelics can not only help heal deep wounds, but also do something less talked about when considering race relations: help white people deal with how they fit into a culture founded in colonialism and white supremacy. He also discusses the nuance in patenting and IP; how private companies have financially benefited from taxpayer dollars; and how, while he’s excited for the future, he’s worried that mental health disparities will get even worse in the coming corporate wave if these medicines are only available to the rich and connected (or if policymakers aren’t thinking of everyone).
Through HEAL Organization, he’s working to gather evidence that proves to providers that it makes financial sense to cover all types of psychedelic therapy, get public funds allocated to give everyone access, and fix barriers so people have the time and resources necessary to work with these medicines. He has worked with the Plant Medicine Coalition to create the National Council on Federal Psychedelics Priorities to collect like-minded individuals and organizations, figure out exactly what psychedelic policy should look like, and take the first steps to get this (unfortunately slow-moving) process going.
Notable Quotes
“From as early as I can remember, [I] can recall thinking there’s not that big of a difference between these kids and [me]. We’re all human. We’re all very much the same. So there’s something going on here that is warping our experiences and our life trajectories, and that’s external to who we are as individual people.” “As a white guy, I know my experience, and I just want to say that I think that there’s really tremendous possibilities out there for white people to deal with our racial shit through psychedelic healing as well. So you know, there’s the whole concept of white fragility and the shirking away of confronting issues of race and systemic oppression; that is a common experience for white people. The way that we, I think, as white people, have internalized trauma that is premised on white supremacy as well. …Psychedelic healing is a real amazing opportunity for us to dig at those issues in ourselves, because the systems of oppression operate external to us, but also through us, and exist inside of us too.”
“I just don’t believe that psychedelic healing can reach its full potential inside of this broken social container where these systems of oppression are just running roughshod over entire communities of people. I just fail to see how that’s possible. So I think as a movement, I would challenge folks to think about why it’s psychedelic to promote a full end, hard stop to the war on drugs.”
Micah is the founder of Healing Equity and Liberation–or HEAL–Organization. It is working to create a justice framework for psychedelic decriminalization, regulation, and healing, using federal policy. He’s worked in federal policy for nearly two decades, including at Vera Institute of Justice and the American Psychological Association. Micah’s both found healing from depression through the use of psychedelics and struggled with substance use, for which he’s been in long-term recovery for over eight years.
Our understanding of the brain in the 1800s was quite different from what we know today – and pretty weird, too.
You can’t throw a tab of LSD without hitting a story about psychedelics these days. While psychedelics are going through a scientific renaissance, 150 years ago, the field was a circus of misinformation and racism. Occasionally though, through that potpourri of misguided madness, it nailed some concepts that still hold up today. Granted, future scientists will most likely write an article clowning the state of psychedelics in the early 2000s to today, but let me be the first to start that vicious cycle by highlighting some of the more ridiculous concepts people believed in the 19th Century.
While there may have been many ethnographic studies of psychedelics dating back to the Bronze Age, the concept of modern neuroscience is a fairly new field. In the 1880s, the interest in neuroscience formed from humanity’s attempt to explain mental illness and addiction through scientific terms as opposed to supernatural spirits possessing bodies. Some neuroscientists in the 19th century believed a person’s cognition, along with predisposition of behavioral traits was rooted in neuroanatomy, which some believed was reflected in the physical structure of the skull. The idea that chemistry played a role in brain functionality was a novel concept that didn’t have much support in the scientific community in the early 1880s. In fact, the closest thing science got to neurochemistry was in 1809, when Johann Christian Reil soaked a brain in pure alcohol for a week just to see what would happen (if you’re wondering, it got really hard and took on the texture of shoe leather).
To first understand the state of neuroscience in the 1800s, we must first comprehend the state of science at the time, and it was bonkers.
Cell Theory, Darwin, and Phrenology
The idea that all living organisms consisted of cells and that all cells originated from pre-existing cells (cell theory) proposed by German physiologist Theodor Schwann in 1839 was revolutionary. It shifted the deeply-held religious belief that life originated supernaturally, and instead, emerged from biological means. It sounds trivial now, but society took a collective seat and came to the realization that each person was a community of cells working in unison to create a ‘Bob,’ Connie,’ or ‘Karen’ (and of course, all those Karen cells wanted to see the manager shortly after being created).
Twenty years after the world recovered from Schwann’s cell theory, Darwin dropped The Origin of a Species, giving birth to the concept of evolution, a radical idea that once again shifted humanity’s focus away from divine creation and more closely towards the modern worldview we hold today.
Science in the 1800s was also notoriously racist. Many people used Darwin’s evolutionary theory to justify hateful pseudoscience that revealed the most vile aspects of humanity. While he was able to consciously remove himself from the 19th century racism that prevailed in science at the time, most could not. Franz Joseph Gall constructed the basic ideologies of phrenology in 1808, which was a belief that a person’s mental aptitude could be determined by bumps and ridges in a person’s skull — evidence Gall believed was the pressure of the neuroanatomy of the brain on the skull. More specifically, he believed a person’s behavior was localized in different compartments in the brain — a total of 28 areas to be exact. Things like ‘the firmness of purpose,’ ‘love of poetry,’ and even a place in the brain that’s responsible for a person’s tendency to murder, Gall insisted, could be determined through cranial anatomy.
When phrenology emerged in Europe in the 1800s, most scientists discarded the idea since its foundations were based on faulty neuroanatomical information. Gall was tossed out of Austria for proposing such an obviously absurd idea and eventually ended up in France, where even Napoleon Bonaparte ridiculed his concept of phrenology. When the rest of the world seemed to collectively reject phrenology as the pseudoscience it truly was, it found a home in America — because at that conflicted time, obviously it would.
With abolitionist movements spreading across the country along with the social underpinnings of what would be known as the Civil War, phrenology was used as a “scientific” reason to justify slavery in America and the overall disgusting treatment of Indigenous people as land continued to be removed from tribal territories. However, phrenology did have its fierce opponents, like John P. Harrison, editor of the Western Lancet, a peer-reviewed medical journal that caught the attention of Southern political leaders when it was introduced to America (and is still in print today). With the assistance of books like Phrenology Vindicatedby Charles Caldwell and Crania Americana by Samuel Morton, political leaders had the “scientific” backing to make absurd claims like Africans were neurologically designed to be enslaved and Indigenous Americans were biologically a different species than white people — which made stealing their land a natural process ordained by God.
Amongst the incendiary nature of science during the 19th century, the unlikely emergence of psychedelic neuroscience occurred — and like all things in the 1800s, it was undoubtedly a product of its time. That’s a nice way to say it was sometimes wrong and mostly racist, but interestingly enough, it got some things right.
Neuroscience can be defined as the objective study of the brain and the central nervous system. The first neuroscientist to analyze the effects of psychedelics was Germany’s Louis Lewin in his book, Phantastica. Although it was officially released in 1924 when Lewin was 74, it contained his collected psychedelic research that took place in the late 1800s. Among the many drugs he categorized, he decided not to call psychedelics “hallucinogens” since not all substances elicit a hallucinatory response. “Phantastica” was the word he decided on, along with other equally interesting names like “Inebriantia” for drugs like alcohol, and my personal favorite, “Excitantia” for substances like caffeine and nicotine.
Lewin was never really a scientific rock star in his time though, mostly because he refused to renounce his Jewish heritage in 19th-century Germany – racism and anti-Semitism in the scientific community at this time went hand-in-hand. However, Lewin did get the props he deserved in psychedelics when Paul Henning of the Berlin Botanical Museum named peyote Anhalonium Lewiniiin Lewin’s honor.
Around the time Lewin came on the scene, most people were describing psychedelics in a subjective manner, wrapped up in pseudo-science and religious mysticism. People weren’t tripping because of psychedelic-induced neurological activity — evil spirits possessed the taker of the psychedelic, which meant evil behavior was soon to follow. Metaphysics, with its focus on the nature of human consciousness and existence, was rapidly growing in the 1800s. Lewin believed that describing psychedelics in metaphysical terms would ruin what we could potentially learn from them. His research was wholly focused on dispelling the pseudoscience that surrounded psychedelics, yet Lewin fell into the trap of anointing psychedelics with otherworldliness with his idea that an invisible force called ‘vital energy’ surrounded all living things. Lewin believed this vital energy governed all chemical, mechanical, and physical properties of each person and that psychedelics had the ability to interrupt this energy. He also believed a person’s resistance to psychedelics was dependent on the strength of their vital energy.
This wasn’t the first time Lewin would take an L in his neuroscientific research of psychedelics. When assessing the capability of certain psychedelics on the brain, he assumed (1924, p. 8) that black people naturally had a higher recovery rate than whites:
“We may take it as a fact that Negroes have greater recuperation powers than white people. This is due not to climatic conditions but to certain innate qualities possessed by them.”
In his writings, he didn’t seek to prove this theory — it was just taken as matter-of-fact; another symptom of the 19th century. Lewin also insisted Indigenous people knew of their own racial inferiority, which is why they self-medicated with psychedelics:
“The Indians of South America are said to have an intuitive appreciation of their own defectiveness, and to be ever ready to rid themselves of such melancholy feelings by intense excitement, i.e. through kola and similar drugs” (p. 2).
Still somehow, Lewin believed psychedelics ‘form bonds in people of all walks of life’ (p. 7). He realized the diversity of people was so great that a one-size-fits-all explanation of human physiology and psychology in regards to psychedelics wouldn’t suffice. Likely influenced by Darwin’s The Origin of Species, Lewin made a strong case for the adaptations of organisms to a variety of external influences like psychedelics. He believed a skilled anthropologist could trace the development of culture directly to the availability of psychedelics, an idea shared 100 years later in Terence McKenna’s Food of the Gods. Lewin was also one of the first scientists to see the health benefits of psychedelics, mostly based on accounts of Indigenous people taking them for mental health.
In the 1800s, a small but prevailing idea amongst scientists was that psychedelics created a “trip” by activating ductless glands in the body to secrete hormones into the endocrine system. Lewin thought the theory was BS and instead theorized that psychedelics excite certain “brain centers” to “transmit agreeable sensations” (p. 3) through the chemistry of the substance. He basically described what we now know as psychedelics acting as serotonergic agonists that bind to mostly 5-HT2A receptors in the brain — an original theory Lewin established nearly 50 years before the discovery of serotonin.
Lewin’s assumption that psychedelics hit specific cortical regions through something like the serotonin system was remarkable, but only because he made other successful guesses like recognizing that every chemical study on the brain up to that point was conducted ex vivo, or on a dead brain, and that in vivo neuro research conducted on a living brain may have chemicals that were not present or didn’t transform into something else upon death. He also knew about the brain’s need for oxygenated blood and suggested that psychedelics may affect this process. Neuroscience had to wait 100 years for Lewin’s idea to be tested with BOLD (Blood Oxygen Level Dependent) brain imaging through MRI.
When it came to theoreticals, Lewin had a few. One of his notable ones was the idea of a toxic equation, which is a loose formula that dictates everyone has a certain resistance to the effects of psychedelics based on their neurophysiology and overall physiology. On the surface, it sounds like a reasonable idea, but digging deeper, it gets a bit irrational. His general belief was that people built up a resistance to psychedelics due to parts of the brain weakening and not being able to process these substances. There’s still no proof of this over a century later though, and in 2021, Dr. Ling-Xiao Shao conducted research that pointed to the opposite. Psilocybin actually strengthens dendritic density in the brain and repairs neurons that have atrophied due to stress and depression. Lewin also believed cells had ‘will-power’ and when a person takes a psychedelic after not taking it for a long time, the memory of the ‘agreeable sensation’ is just too strong to resist and that’s how people become addicted again (p. 18).
Learning From the History of Psychedelics
Unfortunately, psychedelic neuroscience research didn’t really catch on in the 19th century, mostly because civilization almost collapsed due to a global opioid addiction that crippled nearly every economy and led to prohibition in the early 1900s. The bigotry and racism of the 19th century confined Louis Lewin’s research of psychedelics into a box that takes a lot of ethical unpacking to fully absorb.
The origin of neuroscience is shrouded in poorly constructed science and whacky ideas which were specifically designed to marginalize groups of people from the discussion of who could be considered human. It has a dark past, but with a more defined scientific method and newer ideas, the future of psychedelic neuroscience is whatever we make it. In every natural system, diversity is the key defining factor for the progression of that system. These ideas aren’t mine or even new — Darwin wrote several books on this. This same need for diversity also applies to psychedelic neuroscientific research. History shouldn’t serve as an obstacle for the exponential amount of discovery that can be revealed if we all work together. We will get there.
This week’s Solidarity Fridays episode is another 2-parter: A Joe and Kyle discussion followed by the recording of Joe’s interview from Meet Delic with CEO of MINDCURE, Kelsey Ramsden.
In part 1, Joe and Kyle address a recent issue with the Facebook group and a rather accusatory tweet, then discuss something most people who are excited about the prospect of ketamine as medicine aren’t talking about: whether or not ketamine is addictive and therefore a concern for people with substance-abuse issues. And they talk about a Vice article showing some of the shortcomings of Mindbloom and how they highlight the various issues with at-home ketamine therapy and what really counts as ketamine therapy vs. just simply using ketamine. And lastly, inspired by PT writer Zeus Tipado‘s tweet, they wonder if “mystical” is the word we should be using to describe the psychedelic experience – and is the mystical what we should always be striving for?
And in part 2, recorded in a White Castle parking lot in Las Vegas, Joe briefly speaks with Kelsey Ramsden, CEO of MINDCURE. She discusses iSTRYM, their app designed to use A.I. to examine real-time data from users and provide drug-agnostic insights and recommendations, as well as collect and update different protocols for physicians to use with clients. And she talks about MINDCURE’s other big piece, the Desire Project, which is researching MDMA (and possibly other drugs) to help with Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder (HSDD), an affliction that leaves women unable to feel sexual desire (and is much more common than you may think). MINDCURE will also be manufacturing synthetic ibogaine for research studies.
Notable Quotes
“It is interesting when I hear people talk about psychedelics and always wanting to talk or be oriented towards the mystical. …Is it always mystical? Is that something that we always need to point towards for these experiences?” -Kyle “When my undergrad was going on, I was kind of obsessed with this idea of enlightenment, opening up the chakra system, kundalini experience, etc., because I was positive that once I had that, everything else in my life was going to be solved. …I found an intellectual runaround to the suicide thing. It was a spiritual, intellectual solution to my deep dissatisfaction to how my day-to-day was looking. So I was really obsessed with transcendence and mysticism and all this other stuff as a way to avoid my life – classical spiritual bypass. And people may wonder why I have a little bit of snark around this topic. It’s because I lived it. I was there, I was in it. I was not doing very healthy stuff on the regular and also having this kind of interesting transcendent thing I was looking for that would ‘solve everything.’ And that’s what people are looking for, is a single thing to solve their lives and then everything’s good from there. Well, no. You’re not going to get that.” -Joe
From Kelsey Ramsden’s segment:
“I think the sleeper (the secret sauce, if you will) is the protocol catalogue: this idea that a therapist can unlock a variety of protocols in there for different patients and get personalized care at that level, as well as it lets all of us who are developing protocols and drugs get a new revenue line. …We have the content and we distribute it and so that allows us to pick up value at every segment of the value chain, and create an amazing product that can unify mental health care globally. That’s a big statement, but there’s no reason we can’t.”
“I think data’s going to move the science. We know that and that’s what we’re all working on. But story is going to move the culture. I was on a panel the other day and someone was smacking down one of the people who has enrolled a celebrity spokesperson. But for a segment of the population, we’re still in an echo chamber. We’re still in our small world. [Celebrities can move the needle] if it’s the right person with the right message at the right time, for the right audience. …If the right people can put their hand up and say ‘I did this, it helped me, it changed my life,’ and that makes someone explore it and make their own opinions? Amazing. There was someone like that for me.”
With Over 15 years founding, scaling, and operating innovative businesses across several industries, Kelsey Ramsden has built multiple eight-figure companies from the ground up. She is an experienced leader and acclaimed entrepreneur, twice recognized as Canada’s Top Female Entrepreneur of the Year. After serving as MINDCURE‘s COO, Mrs. Ramsden steps into the President and CEO role as of December 1, 2020. She possesses a thorough understanding of the mental health industry and a clear vision of where it is going.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle finally interview legendary author and microdosing popularizer, James Fadiman, Ph.D.
He talks about Tony Sutich, Abe Maslow, and the emergence of transpersonal psychology in an era when psychology was especially uncomfortable with spiritual experience; the early days of the Transpersonal Association and their relationship with Ram Dass; how easy it was to get LSD from Sandoz Pharmaceuticals and the vastly different ways people started experimenting with it; and how society dealt with him, his ideas, and these new substances as they started to become more mainstream.
He discusses microdosing: how it emerged, dosing amounts, how you’re supposed to feel, and how researchers are finally starting to look at brain waves of microdosers. And they discuss the recent self-blinding microdose study and how he thinks the “not statistically significant” difference was actually notable; the strictness of clinical trials and how researchers often stack the deck to get the results they want, and how real world evidence (which psychedelics has a ton of) is seen as the defining factor of a successful trial.
And he talks about his newest book, Your Symphony of Selves: Discover and Understand More of Who We Are, which he sums up quite well with: “Have you ever argued with yourself? Who is the other person arguing?” He believes (and psychology believed, before Freud) that we are made up of several different shifting selves and the key to a happy and healthy life is to embody the right self at the right time.
Notable Quotes
“I’m still not acceptable. I have no University affiliation, no hospital affiliation, no clinic affiliation, and I talk about the correct use of psychedelics in ways that the people who are doing the fundamental research either don’t know or can’t talk about.”
“The level of oversight from the federal government – you cannot imagine it, knowing anything about the federal government today. You wrote Sandoz and Sandoz said, ‘I don’t know who you are. Here’s a whole bunch of LSD.’ Literally, the instructions you would get is: ‘Tell us what you’re doing.’ Because Sandoz had this wonderful problem: they had this substance that was the most powerful substance per molecule that they’d ever found and they didn’t know how to make any money out of it.” “The secret of microdosing is if you’re noticing it, that’s a little too high a dose. …The perfect definition of a microdose is: You have a really good day, you get things done that you’ve been putting off, you’re nice to someone at work who doesn’t deserve it, after work you do one more set of reps at the gym than you usually do, you really enjoy your kids, and at the end of the day you say, ‘Oh, I forgot I had a microdose.’” “The last step is always real world evidence, which is why drugs get recalled. …The funny thing with psychedelics is we have all the real world evidence pretty well stacked up to start. So I’m not waiting for the clinical evidence, because it comes in last.
“The image of the healthy self is more like a choir, where everyone is singing their correct note, but not the same note. And also they’re singing at the right pitch, at the right tempo, at the right volume, so that it works. And a beautifully organized choir doesn’t need a leader because they’re hearing each other.”
James Fadiman, PhD., has been researching psychedelics since 1961 and the effect of microdosing since 2010. His most recent books are The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys and Your Symphony of Selves: Discover and Understand More of Who We Are (with Jordan Gruber). He is working on a new book about microdosing and wants to hear remarkable microdosing stories: jfadiman@gmail.com.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we have another split podcast, with side A bringing you a short PTSF check-in from Joe and Kyle, and side B featuring an in-person interview recorded at Wonderland withNuminus Co-founder and CEO, Payton Nyquvest.
Joe and Kyle first talk aboutupcoming courses (and possibly an in-person pop-up in Breckenridge?), Wonderland, Covid, and whether or not psychedelics are in an “ivory tower,” as Dr. Alex Belser, Chief Clinical Officer of Cybin, suggests they are. And they discuss Mike Tyson: his insistence on saying “toad,” his relationship to Gerry Sandoval, and the dangers of celebrities promoting the further endangerment of such highly threatened species.
Then we go back to Miami where Joe and David speak with Payton Nyquvest of Numinus, a company with two major pieces: ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and a clinical platform offered through Numinus Health, and Numinus Biosciences; which recently produced the first legal psilocybin product derived from natural psilocybin-producing mushrooms. He discusses how his mother’s substance abuse recovery and a trip to an ayahuasca retreat center taught him how to reimagine his chronic pain as a gift, the need for reciprocity, and what the recentCompass Pathways results show us about integration. And he asks an important question we don’t often ponder: Why do healthcare providers only offer psychedelics after they’ve tried everything else? Why not first?
Notable Quotes
“I was in the trauma ward at Lion’s Gate Hospital, I booked my flights while I was in the hospital, went home, packed my bags, and got on the plane. I’m hesitant to create an expectation of a panacea or anything like that, but one week with ayahuasca and I never had any chronic pain issues ever again.”
“We keep talking about treatment-resistant depression, treatment-resistant anxiety or treatment-resistant PTSD, and the reason why the psychedelic space has seen this re-emergence is there’s a huge burden on the healthcare system at the moment, and there’s this recognition that psychedelics could take some of that burden off of the healthcare system. So why are we putting psychedelic treatments at the end of a patient’s life-cycle? Why should they have to go through this prolonged period of suffering? …Why is it not a standard of care, with curative intent? Put it at the beginning. …If they’re safe and effective, why are they not prioritized?”
“When I speak with institutions and stuff like that, they say, ‘Wow, you guys really seem to be approaching this from a 3-5 year standpoint, and intentional.’ And my response is: ‘Who’s not?’ …Let’s not be short-sighted, and recognize [that] a paradigm shift in healthcare is so significant. We haven’t seen significant innovation in mental health in 35-40 years. So that’s a big shift. …Let’s not try and squeeze psychedelics into old paradigms of the pharmaceutical space or something like that. Let’s recognize that these are interventions, and where do they fit within the healthcare system?”
Payton Nyquvest is the Co-founder, Chair & Chief Executive Officer of Numinus, a company that empowers people to heal and be well through the development and delivery of innovative mental health care and access to safe, evidence-based psychedelic-assisted therapies. He has a deep understanding of the psychedelic industry from its infancy, driven by life-saving personal experiences with multiple therapy modalities. At Numinus, he guides teams leading strategy, innovation, research and clinic network expansion, and supports the marketing and capital markets functions. He is responsible for raising more than $70 million for Numinus in the past year, and is quoted widely in media such as CTV, Forbes and the New York Times. In addition, he brings more than 15 years working in finance, investment and retail banking with some of Canada’s leading independent investment firms, including Jordan Capital Markets, Canaccord Financial and Mackie Research Capital. In these and other roles, he has raised more than $100 million for a variety of small cap companies.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview CEO & Co-founder of Nue Life, Juan Pablo Cappello, from his home in Miami during the Wonderland conference.
Cappello first talks about growing up in Chile and provides some history; covering how peyote became religious and how Catholicism spread through the Americas like a franchise system. And he talks about his family’s relationship with San Pedro, his entrepreneurial past (starting the first online bank in Latin America), and how selling that company for $700 million felt like an abject failure.
He discusses how the idea of depression and PTSD being symptoms of an unaddressed root cause led to the creation of Nue Life, and what he wants to do with what he considers a primarily data-based company: use the massive amounts of data connected devices are already harvesting from us (digital phenotyping) for our benefit rather than our detriment. He believes most medical models focus primarily on the continued income from maintenance medications like antidepressants, and instead, A.I. could use this data to recognize patterns in behavior and make recommendations based on each user’s specific data points – a sort of health ecosystem attuned to what works best for each person.
While he’s very excited about the progress so far (data from 2k people, Nue Life being licensed in five states with five more coming soon), he also talks about his concerns with the current psychedelic gold rush: how Big Pharma is pushing pioneers in the space into restrictive models, and why we will soon see a flame-out of many of these emerging highly-appraised companies.
Notable Quotes
“At the height of the drug war under Clinton, we had 2.2 million people going to jail for drug crimes. This year, it’ll be 2.1 million. So we still have huge, huge numbers of people being incarcerated and going to jail, and for me, that’s because of the way we’ve managed the cannabis industry. And I really, especially at a conference like this where it becomes about the money (not about the impact); I’m very, very concerned that we’re going to find ourselves missing this once-in-a-generation opportunity to make real progress. And real progress really begins with decriminalizing these amazing substances.”
“We’re not a psychedelics-focused company. We’re a mental wellness-focused company that’s going to use whatever technologies are available to drive these extraordinary patient outcomes.”
“How can we, rather than having our phones be a source of body dysmorphia and negativity and a place I feel compelled to go to but it ultimately is bringing me down – how can we turn that technology around and have it be something that helps elevate our patients? …We’re constantly giving out [data] but that data can be used, like a lot of tools, for good as well as for bad, and we’re in a position where we’re really saying: let us be one of the first companies that’s going to use this data for good.”
Juan Pablo Cappello is a passionate entrepreneur who believes in the power of technology and innovation to address humanity’s biggest challenges — mental wellness being one of them. In his home country of Chile, Juan Pablo has seen both the trauma caused by years of a military dictatorship and the power of psychedelic therapies to heal that trauma. As Nue Life‘s CEO & Co-founder, Juan Pablo measures the company’s success by how many lives Nue Life positively impacts.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we’re doing something a little different and featuring two shorter interviews, recorded in a media room at theWonderland Miami conference last week. First, Joe andDavid interview Ahmad Doroudian, Ph.D., the CEO & Director of BetterLife Pharma, and then David speaks with Dr. Abid Nazeer, Chief Medical Officer at Wesana Health.
After a brief Joe rant that touches on Wonderland, biopiracy, rising sea levels, and psychedelics for problem solving, we jump into Ahmad Doroudian’s recording, where they mostly talk about the non-hallucinogenic compound, 2-Bromo-LSD. While LSD has shown great signs at being effective for the treatment of cluster headaches, many people (including Doroudian) do not want to experience the hallucinatory part of this medicine, so BetterLife Pharma has been researching using this LSD-relative to address this very need (and it may be even safer than LSD too). They also touch on another compound, TD-010, which could be a safe and non-addictive alternative to benzodiazepines.
Part 2 of this split podcast features David sitting down with Chief Medical Officer at Wesana Health, Abid Nazeer. He talks about opening the first ketamine clinic in the midwest;Daniel Carcillo; the need for integrative wellness; and traumatic brain injuries, which they’re researching alongside MAPS. He talks about what he wants to do with Wesana Health, which is essentially creating a “center of excellence” hub where a patient can be referred to different departments (spokes) specializing in any number of possible healing modalities, all under the same network.
Notable Quotes
“Can we put this together in a way that is patient-friendly, cost-effective, all the things that are more or less a big pharma approach, to something that could really make a difference? It’s not specialized, you don’t need to have a high net worth to get this treatment, and you don’t need to worry about side effects.” -Ahmad Doroudian
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“I told my wife that I want to open up a private practice ketamine/psychiatry clinic a couple of days after we found out she was pregnant with twins. She’s like, ‘Now? Is this the right time?’ There’s never a right time, but if you feel it, you should go for it.” -Abid Nazeer
“We’re complex beings and the brain is super complex, so that whole hypothesis that it’s all about up-regulation of serotonin or dopamine or norepinephrine receptors; I don’t think it’s going to hold weight in the long run. There’s too many other factors involved, and psychedelics are teaching us that you can approach this in a whole different way.” -Abid Nazeer
“It’s almost like some programs focus on therapy, some focus on biology, and the needle should be right in the middle for the best effect. And I think psychedelics are the first thing to actually bring it back to that.” -Abid Nazeer
Ahmad Doroudian, Ph.D. is the Chief Executive Officer & Director BetterLife Pharma. He has more than 20 years of experience as a Pharma CEO in finance, including M&A, and multiple IPOs, Integration of pharmaceutical operations (Whitehall Robbins, Rhone Polenc, Boehringer, Aventis). He is the Founder of Merus Labs (NASDAQ: MSLI), which sold for $300 M+ in 2017. He specializes in acquisition, integration, tech transfer and management of branded pharmaceutical products Enablex®/Emselex®, Entrophen®, Sandomigran®, Sintrom®, Vancocin®, Zaditen®.
About Dr. Abid Nazeer
Dr. Abid Nazeer is the Chief Medical Officer for Wesana Health and is a leader in the fields of addiction, ketamine therapy, and pharmacogenetics, currently spearheading research into ketamine and cognition. He was previously Chief Medical Officer for a national network of addiction focused clinics, pioneered the first dedicated outpatient psychiatric based ketamine clinic in the Midwest, and lead the PTSD clinic at Overton Brooks VA Medical Center.
In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: writer and participant in one of the first ever clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression.
She talks about her complicated path to becoming part of the study; the study itself; her frustrations with the clinical and dehumanizing aspects of research; and how integral communication, community, and integration were toward her healing. They discuss the importance of self-analysis and doing self-work under the right circumstances: Are you too close to your everyday environment? Who or what is causing you to feel this way? Are you in a place in life where you can be ok with being destabilized for weeks or months?
And she tells three different stories of spontaneous mystical experiences; tears in the fabric of her universe where the lines between reality and dreams were blurred, including one where a friend’s deceased mother (who she had never met) spoke to her in a dream about her own family. And this leads to a discussion about the DSM, psychiatry, and how we don’t know anywhere near enough about schizophrenia or these strange brushes with the mystical.
Notable Quotes
“I just assumed, for no reason other than people encouraging me to take psychedelics, that I don’t need to take that stuff because I see horrible things when I’ve got a migraine anyway — why would I want to go there? Of course, ironically, I learned once I got to Hopkins, that in fact, that probably would have helped me.”
“[In Europe,] doctors cannot get their minds around the idea that an American (where ‘everybody has money’) has to leave the country to get treatment and care for a medical condition. This has to be gone around and around and around, both in England and in France, more times than you could possibly imagine. They cannot get their heads around it.” “I can’t stress enough that the integration part, ideally, is done where there is community involved. …This is about community and coming away from that horrible isolation of depression back into contact with the rest of the world in a constructive and more advanced and more clear-thinking and more elevated (if you want) way. …In some ways, it’s more important than taking the drug. The drug is an accelerant. The drug does its job, but the drug is not the point. The process is the point.”
Erica Rex writes about science, environment, mental health, climate, and the forces shaping all of them. She’s written for The New York Times, Scientific American, The Times (UK), and is the recipient of a National Magazine Award. She was a subject in one of the first clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer related depression in 2012. Her book-in-progress traces the story of psychedelics through the lens of her quest to heal from childhood trauma. Ms Rex’s unique perspective shows how psychedelic medicine provides a pathway out of trauma, a light at the end of a very long tunnel.
In this episode we’re talking to Joe Moore, Co-founder and CEO of Psychedelics Today about coaching & psychedelics.
Joe grew up in New Hampshire (United States) and did his undergraduate in Philosophy. In his second year he learned about Stanislav Grof´s Holotropic breathwork and started working with this style of breathwork. Through this work he got more and more in contact with others interested in psychedelics and since then he never left this field again.
Today he is the CEO of Podcast & Blog on Psychedelics named Psychedelics Today, educates doctors and therapists about (psychedelic) drugs. He also offers courses for coaches on psychedelic preparation and integration.
In this episode we talk with Joe about his work, what is offered by Psychedelics Today, about his view on different coaching approaches and what coaches in the field of psychedelics should know. But we also talk about the legal and research situation of psychedelics and when to send someone to a therapist vs. a coach. He shares with us a lot of insights regarding his own philosophy and which books to be read when starting with psychedelics.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle recorded together from a hotel in Biscayne Bay, looking out over Miami Beach and reflecting over the Wonderland Miami conference they just attended. And that’s what this abbreviated podcast is: a quick check-in to discuss Wonderland (and Meet Delic, which Joe attended) while it’s all still fresh in their minds.
Beyond the reviews and comparisons, they talk about how it felt to attend a big conference again; Joe’s panel about what the world of psychedelics will look like in ten years; Compass Pathways’ just-released research outcomes and why Joe is reconsidering his critiques of their patent issues; and how a few of the people they met at Wonderland are already motivating them and making them consider just how much they can really do with Psychedelics Today.
Notable Quotes
“Overall, I think people are slowly coming out of their shells around Covid, which is nice. Still be careful out there, folks, but we’re seeing people lower their guard, and it seems really healthy to be with people again.” -Joe “I think you and I had some really interesting conversations walking home from the party last night, back to our hotel. And I was like, subtly in-crisis, going, ‘I need to really re-vision where Psychedelics Today lives in this space.’ I think you and I are going to do a lot of thinking over the next couple of weeks about what we actually want to do, and see what the right move is. It’s fascinating times.” -Joe
In this episode, Joe was in Las Vegas for the Meet Delic conference, and, inspired by the presentation by Jesse Gould and Roger Sparks, decided to record an episode with three veteran friends for a special Veterans Day release.
While the three vets chose to keep their names and personal details anonymous, they share a lot about the military and the difficulties of transitioning back into civilian life. They talk about how there’s actually a lot of drug use in the military (and how essential nonstop stimulants or painkillers are to some); how little there is in the way of a transition process; and how the normal mind state for most soldiers is a combination of tucking all emotions and anxiety away, assuming they’re going to die, and powering through until there’s time to work through it all (which of course never comes).
They also talk about a lot of issues the rest of us don’t necessarily think about, like how hard the demanding schedule of deployment is on one’s personal life, how much families are affected by the mental health of someone on deployment, how tough it is to become like family with fellow soldiers only to have them go away, and how challenging it is for someone who has good mental health practices in play to be able to continue them once in the service.
But it’s not all dark, as they also talk about how psychedelics, meditation, breathwork, wilderness therapy, and long hikes have helped them reevaluate their lives, see themselves (and others) from different perspectives, and get to places of happiness (but with continued work). This is a glimpse into the camaraderie of vets, and their laughter and support of one another really drives home one of their main points: the importance of finding a community of people who support you, understand you, and don’t judge you.
Notable Quotes
“I did more drugs on deployment than I’ve ever done in my life. That’s a fact.” “You get in this habit of pushing things off, pushing it away, pushing it away. And that shit just builds up and then, now the lid doesn’t stay on and you just fucking pop. …You’re told to just shove it down, push through, whatever. ‘You’ll get through it, you’ll figure it out later.’ But you don’t ever have that time to figure it out.” “You’ve got to be willing to put yourself in these uncomfortable situations that oftentimes accompany doing a psychedelic drug, and accepting the thoughts and emotions that are going to arise, and working through those with the knowledge that: ‘Hey, I’m doing this to better myself.’”
“[My friend] finally said ‘This is fucking bullshit, I need to help myself’ and took a trip to Costa Rica, did ayahuasca, and completely changed his life. He still struggles — it’s not an end all be all, you’ve still got to work on yourself — but he was able to enjoy life after that and spend time with his kids and appreciate what he has and build and grow from that. …[He had] a decision-making turning point in his brain where [he said], ‘I’m not going to rely on the army medical system [or] the VA to fix this mental issue, this mental battle that I’m having; I need to do this for myself.’ And I really hope that, if anything, any veterans out there listening, if they get anything from that, it’s: You can be helped, but you’ve got to want to help yourself first, and that’s ok. It’s ok.”
“No two struggles are going to be the same. No two traumas are going to be the same. No two solutions are going to be the same. …It took a psychedelic trip for me to realize all the things that we’re talking about. It doesn’t have to be that way for everybody, but you won’t know what your solution is until you start trying things.” “If you’re a veteran that’s thinking about suicide or that nothing else is working for you, you’re not alone. There are a lot of us out there that have had a lot of issues that we’re trying to work through and you can work through it. Even though it seems like it’s not going to happen, there is a way. …Ask for help. Talk to others. And don’t bottle it up, don’t be ashamed. Nobody’s going to shame you. If they do? Fuck ‘em. Whatever. They shouldn’t be in your life.”
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with famed anthropologist and author (most notably of The Cosmic Serpent), Jeremy Narby. He is also the Amazonian projects director for Nouvelle Planète, a nonprofit organization that works to empower Indigenous peoples through demarcation of land.
Narby talks about how he was pushed to psychedelics through a combination of long talks with Humphry Osmond and political anthropology, focusing on the conflict between the World Bank and Indigenous people over their land. He tells how his first ayahuasca and datura experiences made him feel reconciled with nature, and how he realized people in the states had started speaking highly of the ecological knowledge of Indigenous people of the Amazon without ever talking about the hallucinogenic way they attained that knowledge (and how he felt it was his place to start talking about it).
He also discusses anthropology and subjectivity; Richard Evans Schultes; the problem with trying to verify or substantiate hallucinations; the West’s focus on “the active ingredient” and how ayahuasca is much more than drinkable DMT; the overuse and microdosing of ayahuasca; the entourage effect and how it’s excluded by the “DMT explains everything” hypothesis; why vine-only ayahuasca needs to be researched more; and the differences in how people react to LSD vs. ayahuasca or psilocybin (do the plant substances have a trickster spirit in them which doesn’t like some people?).
To win a copy of Narby’s most recent book, Plant Teachers: Ayahuasca, Tobacco, and the Pursuit of Knowledge (co-authored by Rafael Chanchari Pizuri), click here!
Notable Quotes
“When I first started hearing this at the age of 25 (in 1985), I thought it was a bit of a joke because I didn’t think that one could take psychedelics and learn about plant properties. I thought one could take LSD and have an interesting time in the woods with one’s friends, but if you really started thinking that the trees were talking to you, there was a bit of a problem. That was my point of view at the time. But here were these rainforest Indians living in the most biodiverse place on earth saying: Yes, we learn about plant properties by drinking this hallucinogenic vine mixture.” “I went to the Rio summit in 1992, and suddenly there are all these governments talking about the knowledge of Indigenous people about biodiversity, talking about the knowledge of Amazonian Indians and how we have to recognize it and take it into consideration. Everybody talking about the knowledge of Indigenous Amazonians, [but] nobody talking about the hallucinogenic origin of this knowledge as they themselves discuss it.”
“If you’re an average Westerner; without really even realizing it, you kind of subscribe to this idea of The Active Ingredient. So you know what is the active ingredient of ayahuasca? Ah, it’s DMT. This is the scientific opinion that has been turned into a kind of orthodoxy, but just talk to the Indigenous Amazonian people. They’ll tell you that the vine itself, which doesn’t contain DMT, is the main ingredient.” “Just the ayahuasca vine itself; if you make an extract from it, you already have a complex cocktail. And then that mixture is used to study all the other plants. And so, it’s a cocktail to which you can add tobacco and nicotine, datura and scopolamine, coca and cocaine — you can add any plant you want to study the effect of the plant. That’s what ayahuasca also is. So, it’s, at its base, a cocktail, and then it can be turned into a psychoactive cocktail with many different plants, including DMT. …It’s Cocktail City, basically.”
Jeremy Narby, PhD, is co-author of Plant Teachers: Ayahuasca, Tobacco, and the Pursuit of Knowledge with indigenous elder Rafael Chanchari Pizuri. He became an early pioneer of ayahuasca research while living with the Asháninka people of the Peruvian Amazon in the 1980s. He studied anthropology at Stanford University and now lives in Switzerland and works as Amazonian Projects Director for Nouvelle Planète, a nonprofit organization that promotes the economic and cultural empowerment of Indigenous peoples.
In this episode, travel and preparing for Wonderland Miami made recording a fresh Solidarity Friday episode impossible, so instead, we bumped up Tuesday’s episode, where Joe speaks with accomplished neuroscientist, researcher, Professor and Vice Chair of Psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, and Director of Mental Health at the James J. Peters VA Medical Center, Dr. Rachel Yehuda.
She talks about the importance and complications of research trials: the difficulty researchers have in remaining neutral; how protocols have an arbitrary beginning and end that may not make sense to the participant; how the process of getting funding for one’s own clinical trial begins with creating a simple and specific protocol; and how, while it can often feel like therapy to participants, the purpose of these trials is often more for researchers to learn from participants how to better run the trials themselves.
And she discusses much more: her background and path to psychedelic research; the current trial focusing on using ayahuasca for relational processes between Palestinians and Israelis; why knowing the pharmacology of a compound doesn’t explain enough; what she thinks the next few years of psychedelic neuroscience looks like; how to work with big corporations who may seem like they’re only in it for the money; and how we need a science to analyze what she’s most interested in: trying to predict who will or won’t respond to a particular treatment (and why).
Notable Quotes
“We don’t need everybody around the table to be gung-ho psychedelic aficionados. We want the medicine to speak for itself in clinical trials and we want to pay very careful attention to people that don’t respond the way the zeitgeist is telling us that everybody will, because we want to learn from everybody.”
“If you treat it like any other study and just go through the steps, what you’ll find about psychedelic research is there are just a lot more steps. …Start with a protocol. Start in a very concrete way, and let’s have a discussion around this particular protocol and not a theory.”
“I think we need deep humility here that we are not going to know or understand how psychedelics work in the brain for a long time, mostly because I think the tools that we need haven’t necessarily been developed. …What we do know so far, is that just understanding the pharmacology of a compound isn’t going to get us where we need to go.” “I think the more sober and conservative we are at this stage, the higher the yield we will have in the future in terms of a very big footprint for these approaches; not just as [a] last-ditch ‘I’ve tried everything so now let me try this’ approach, but as the tools that I think that people have known for years and decades (and millennia even in some societies) that they could be if used correctly at the right time, in the right place, in the right way, in the right setting, [and] with the the right people.”
Rachel Yehuda is an Endowed Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience of PTSD and Vice Chair for Veteran Affairs in the Department of Psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, where she directs the Center for Psychedelic Psychotherapy and Trauma Research and the Traumatic Stress Studies Division. She is also Director of Mental Health at the James J. Peters VA Medical Center in the Bronx. She is the recipient of numerous federal grants and awards, has authored several hundred peer-reviewed scientific papers, and is a member of the National Academy of Medicine. Dr. Yehuda’s work has focused primarily on the neuroscience and treatment of trauma and PTSD.
In this episode, Joe interviews New York-based writer, comedian, and performer, Adam Strauss.
Strauss tells his story of growing up with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder; struggling with decisions, control, and anger, and how a small 2006 study on psychedelics and OCD mixed with meeting someone who had had a life-changing ego death at age 16 led him to try to fix his OCD with psilocybin. The subsequent trips (especially the bad ones) became a template for how to work with his OCD, as they taught him to accept, feel, and breathe through the emotions his OCD was trying to protect him from. He tells the full story through his one-man show, “The Mushroom Cure,” which he’s hoping to turn into a special.
He also talks about comedy in the era of Covid and why he doesn’t do much stand-up anymore; the creation of his YouTube show, “The Trip Report” (which originally was co-hosted by last week’s guest, Hamilton Morris); Terence McKenna and the concept of humans coevolving with psychedelics; drug urban legends and the misinformation of the drug war (Oprah and MDMA causing holes in the brain); and why psychedelics may be the best tool towards saving the planet.
Notable Quotes
“OCD is entirely a disease of thinking. If you don’t have thinking, you don’t have OCD. It’s this trying to figure out and get things perfect in your mind, but the roots of OCD, I believe (and I believe this is true of all what we would call mental illness): …it’s always in the body. There’s always an emotion, which is basically a physical sensation that we don’t want to experience. And so with OCD, there is a fear or a loss, and the idea is that if I can figure everything out in my head or if I can arrange things perfectly in the world, then that feeling in my body will change. …And so if you’re able to accept that anxiety, to really feel the fear in the body, that takes the wind out of the OCD’s sails.”
“I don’t think psychedelics are necessarily going to save humanity, but I think our odds of survival without psychedelics are vanishingly slim.” “If you’re talking about OCD, you’re really talking about this absolute inability or unwillingness to trust anything. You don’t trust yourself (that’s why I have to check the stove 47 times), but you also just don’t trust the universe. You don’t trust that things will be okay. And on psychedelics, I’ve had these spiritual, religious, ‘plus four’ experiences where there is a deep sense of a profound intelligence …at work- an intelligence that transcends my own consciousness and probably transcends human consciousness. And I think so much of why we’ve gone off the rails (at least in Western society) is this real loss of religious and spiritual experience.”
“Having people who should know better believe drug war propaganda is not top of the list, but it is significant. It is significant, and I think it tells you how effective this propaganda has been. We laugh about “Reefer Madness,” but a lot of these same people who laugh about “Reefer Madness” do believe that LSD can give you a flashback because it still stays in your spinal fluid.” “I think one thing psychedelics reliably do at high doses is they can be humbling, and I think humility; it doesn’t always lead to compassion and empathy, but I think it often can.”
Adam Strauss is a writer and performer based in New York. His monologue, “The Mushroom Cure,” is the true story of how he treated his debilitating obsessive-compulsive disorder with psychedelics. The New York Times said it “mines a great deal of laughter from disabling pain,” The Chicago Tribune called it “arrestingly honest and howlingly funny”, and Michael Pollan called it “brilliant, hilarious and moving.” Adam is also the creator of The Trip Report, a psychedelic news show streaming now. Adam also speaks about OCD and psychedelics in articles, on podcasts, and at conferences.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle have a serious discussion about abuse in psychedelics, talk about upcoming conferences, and even cover some news.
They’re both attending Wonderland this November 8-9th in Miami (and now both on panels too?), so they start the show by excitedly talking about that (use our affiliate link here to buy tickets to attend or stream at home).
But then things turn more serious, with discussion of the recent accusations of abuse against two prominent figures in this space by friend of the show, Will Hall – something you may have been wondering when we’d address (and which Joe wrote about in yesterday’s blog). They talk about the frustrations of not knowing what to do with stories people have confided in them, the complications of sexual energies coming out in psychedelic sessions, the cult-like mentality of protecting abusive facilitators, the politics of becoming a narc, the financial dangers of defamation, and how the best way to tremendously improve safety in psychedelic work would be to end the drug war.
And they cover some news: Bank of America canceling the account of the Scottsdale Research Institute likely due to their research of psychedelics; Prime Minister Boris Johnson considering legalizing psilocybin (which is actually pretty newsworthy); and legalization progress in Luxembourg, Switzerland, and East Hampton, Massachusetts.
Notable Quotes
“Going to bed at night knowing that I’m keeping my mouth quiet; is that complicity?” -Joe “At a certain point, you will become that elder that you were seeking for guidance, given diligent effort and careful attention to detail and a lot of integrity. Those things can really add up to you becoming the elder that you were seeking in somebody else.” -Joe “By doing this stuff, often, you are breaking the law and you expose yourself to a lot of legal risk. And by people inviting you into their world, they’re exposing themselves to tremendous amounts of legal risk. So there has to be this trust, and as soon as the trust is gone, what the fuck is left?” -Joe “To feel good about yourself years later; the trick is to have integrity now, so you know you handled that situation to the best of your ability.” -Joe “Don’t touch people without consent. If you’re going to do something where you’re touching people, make sure you have a lot of conversations (pre-dosing) about it. Maybe you need to totally re-vision how you’re doing underground intake. Maybe it needs to be a lot longer and you need to charge a little bit more to be able to allow for that kind of informed consent. …Be very careful, please. Very, very careful — over the line with consent. Overboard with consent.” -Joe
Some commentary on recent events and long-standing issues in psychedelia.
The psychedelic world had a major shake-up in the past few weeks. A few popular teachers in the space had some pretty serious accusations leveled at them by Will Hall, who has previously been on our podcast here and here.
You can read Will’s article on Mad in America here. He had further things to say in this article on Medium.
I’ve been hearing rumors and firsthand accounts related to the accused for a few years now and have been working internally and with allies on the best approach for dealing with it all.
It’s not talked about a lot, but sex and psychedelics are closely linked (drugs and sex generally, for that matter). Think about the sexual liberation that boomed in the 1960s and is still seen in parts of the Burning Man and EDM culture today. Think about how powerful feelings of love and connection can be while on any number of mind-altering substances, and how easily they could morph into something more sexual.
Perhaps you’ve never experienced it, but regularly in psychedelic therapy sessions, sexual feelings do arise and can create challenging dynamics for both the client and therapist to navigate. What does someone in a fragile mind state, dealing with a maze of conflicting emotions and energies, do with an affectionate or sexual feeling they may suddenly have? What does the therapist do? How does either person know they can truly trust the other? This all leads to a big question many may not want to consider: Is it possible to totally divorce sexual feelings and ideas from psychedelic sessions?
I’d suggest that no, it isn’t possible. Psychedelics unleash all sorts of energies without any bias or filter, so why would sexual energy be exempt?
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I believe that psychedelics can be transformative for mental health, religious practice, spirituality, physical healing, creativity, celebration, rites of passage, and even for the development of planet-saving technology — and this is an abbreviated list. Psychedelics are extremely powerful things that can serve as near miracle cures and beautiful spectacles, but unfortunately, they can also be used as weapons.
For a long time on the podcast (and in day-to-day life — sorry, friends), I’ve complained about how I’ve unintentionally taken on the role of the “Psychedelic Police.” Because of my many years in the psychedelic world and my perceived expertise, many folks have divulged negative or abusive stories about what they’ve experienced in underground (and occasionally aboveground) situations. I shouldn’t complain about this, since it’s an honor to be so trusted, and some stories may have helped me side-step traps Psychedelics Today could have fallen into.
It is frustrating though, and puts me in a tough spot.
Due entirely to the drug war, there are serious legal and financial consequences for bringing such things to light on behalf of someone else. What if the story isn’t entirely true? What if it is, but can’t be proven? What if proving it relies on multiple people admitting illegal activity and they’re not willing to do that? I could be hit with cease-and-desist letters, defamation lawsuits, or just be perpetually dragged into court for any number of things. Lawyers are expensive and what’s right doesn’t always win. Without ruining my reputation and finances, and possibly destroying my best tool for bringing positive impact to the psychedelic space (this very website), I have little recourse. We have developed some ideas about the next best steps, but it is hard to know with certainty if we are doing the right thing. So I do what I can, which never feels like enough. I anonymize these stories and turn them into generic ethical warnings, encouraging people to do their research and be as safe as possible.
At the Horizons Conference in 2019, Dr. Carl Hart suggested that immediately ending the drug scheduling system would be an amazing first step in resolving a range of harmful consequences from the war on drugs. Others have proposed that a state-by-state or region-based decriminalization similar to what we’ve seen over the last few years in Oakland, Oregon, and Denver would be the ideal starting point (especially from the perspective of political expediency). Whichever side of the solution you land on, I think we can all agree that we need to fix our laws around controlled substances and plants.
Given that facilitators and guides work with substances that are federally illegal, there could be massive consequences for someone participating in underground work who is apprehended by law enforcement for any reason. For both the facilitator and the participant; consider the attention to detail needed to ensure you’re protected from liability, the knowledge and support systems needed to be able to handle serious medical cases, and the amount of apprehension and secrecy necessary to maintain anonymity for all involved. Add in the complications of how differently an action can be perceived by different people in different mind states, and this almost creates an incentive structure to sweep things under the rug — a bypassing of anything perceived as a threat to the overall good. People who could force change can be, and often are banished from communities for asking the “wrong” questions.
Since so many people are forced to operate in an underground capacity, it makes sense that these problems exist. And they will continue to exist if we can’t have open and honest conversations about what we’re experiencing, and start working together to figure out how to answer so many of these complicated questions within the confines of the drug war.
How do we talk about sex and psychedelics?
What are the appropriate ways to deal with sexual energies and consent in situations where people consume mind-altering substances in situations with clear power dynamic differentials?
How do we report issues of abuse to local leaders and elders?
Will they fight for us?
Do they have any teeth?
What capacity do they have to investigate?
Does the victim have any legal ground?
Will law enforcement toss out reports due to drugs being involved?
What if other senior leaders become complicit in a cover-up surrounding their colleagues?
At what point should leaders step down and elevate new leaders?
Is restorative justice even possible if the victim or perpetrator doesn’t feel safe or supported enough to come to the table?
While some acts are inexcusable, we have to be honest with ourselves and understand that good people make mistakes; bad people can be anywhere; and while it’s easy to blame the individual person, bad policies and dysfunctional systems incentivize bad behavior and can scare good people into silence.
Ending the destructive and racist drug war in the US and internationally would improve safety and transparency in vulnerable spaces that often don’t have much of either. When the legal status of underground work is improved, frameworks for safety can be established, and abusers simply won’t be able to get away with bad behavior to the same degree they can today. When we can be more open, people will be safer, and practices can be improved more rapidly.
Ending the drug war is an enormous undertaking, and while there aren’t clear steps on how to accomplish such an incredible feat, many in this field are working tirelessly to do what they can.
The best thing I can do is to use my voice at Psychedelics Today; creating courses, podcasts, and articles that help normalize psychedelics as part of everyday, contemporary life; shed light on under-discussed topics; and give voices to people who aren’t well-known in the space.
I will continue to do my best to address these tough questions around abuse. I hope you’ll join me.
In this episode, Joe travels to the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia for a rare in-person interview with chemist, filmmaker, science journalist, and go-to media consultant, Hamilton Morris.
They cover a lot: Hamilton’s early realizations of how ill-informed the media was about psychedelics; his time at Vice and how being a journalist gave him a license for curiosity; why he was most interested in covering the substances people were comfortable hating; respectability politics and how only showing what helps the movement is propaganda; how we can learn from watching people do salvia on YouTube; drug elitism; PCP advocate and Process Church alum, Timothy Wyllie; how people attribute more to chemical makeup than their own psychology; how we all need to be more open about our psychedelic use; and why it’s unnecessary (and potentially dangerous) to embrace the narrative that you need to suffer (and do so with a shaman) to truly heal.
They talk a lot about his two 5-MeO episodes of “Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia,” with Hamilton laying out what he wanted to do with the episodes, detailing what led Ken Nelson to first milk a Sonoran Desert Toad, and explaining how small of a chemical difference there is between toad-derived and plant-derived 5-MeO-DMT. And they touch on the hot topic of his relationship with Compass Pathways- how it’s not that different from what several historical psychedelic figures did, and how it’s leading to the creation of many new drugs.
Notable Quotes
“As an outsider, you might think, ‘Well who’s going to object to this? It’s going to be Christian mothers and middle America- those are going to be the people that object to it.’ But that’s actually not the case at all. I’ve received no objection from law enforcement or conservatives. 100% of the opposition comes from within the psychedelic community. That’s where all the in-fighting and the discord tends to be localized.”
“Yes, there are very serious differences between [psychedelics and other drugs], but if we fall into the same moral binary, then we’re ultimately no better than people that think that the distinction between licit and illicit drugs is a pharmacologically or medically meaningful distinction.” “It’s actually kind of interesting how within this neovitalist/animist concept of the activity of plants, …people are dismissing their own psychology entirely and attaching all value to the molecular identity of the drug. And this is coming from someone who is a staunch materialist who spends all of their time thinking about the molecular identity of drugs, and I can tell you, this is crazy. The human mind is a huge contributor. If you take the exact same dose of LSD every year, I would be amazed if it’s the same. I would bet against any resemblance between these experiences because you will be different. You will be in a different mood, you will be thinking about different things. You change all the time, much more than the drug.”
“In the last three months, we’ve synthesized more psychedelics than in the preceding three years. …I understand, and I actually am happy about the vigilance of the psychedelic community and I think it is important to keep an eye on these things and make sure that everyone behaves in an ethical manner, but at the same time, there’s something a little bit surreal about waking up each morning to invent new psychedelics and people thinking that’s a bad thing.”
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe sits down with photographer, entrepreneur, veteran of the cannabis industry, and current CEO at Microdose; Patrick Moher.
Moher talks about his path through the cannabis world and to Microdose; entrepreneurship, his business ethics, and how to build a team; the openness of psychedelic companies; Tim Ferris; the bravado in cannabis; the war on drugs; and everything Microdose is working on, including CME-accredited training, a magazine, and a documentary. But they mostly talk about Moher’s biggest project right now, the massive psychedelic expo happening November 8-9 in Miami: Wonderland.
We’re psyched to announce that we’re Silver Sponsors of the event, and Joe, Kyle, and David will all be attending. Featuring an insane lineup of speakers (Robin Carhart-Harris, Rick Doblin, David Nutt, Mike Tyson, Matthew Johnson, Ben Sessa, and many more), projection mapping, VR applications, an art exhibit, wild decorations (giant mushrooms), and sure-to-be memorable afterparties, Moher’s goal was to create a business-minded event that people would actually have fun at.
We’ll surely be talking more about Wonderland as we get closer to the already-very-close first day, but if you want to act now and save some serious cash,use our affiliate link here to buy tickets! Oh, and we’re nominated for a fewMicrodose awards as well, so vote for us and vote often! (you can vote once a day)
Notable Quotes
“As an entrepreneur, the way I want to do my business is ‘win-win or no deal.’ If everyone’s not benefitting and we’re not contributing to the future that we want to see, then I’m not really interested in engaging.” “A lot of people give a lot of grief to a lot of things. But it’s like, is that benefitting your life at all to just be hating on what somebody else is doing? They’re clearly following a passion, doing what they feel is important, doing their life’s work. Why don’t you go and do yours?”
“If it’s not your cup of tea, there’s 20 other teabags sitting on the shelf. Go find it.” “Mike Tyson and Lamar Odom: I know they’ve had their troubles in the past, Mike being a particularly controversial figure. [But] do you believe in second chances? Do you believe that these things can help people become better and do you believe that we can heal together? [That’s] the unifying story there.”
“When people talk about ‘what is the psychedelic industry really going to change?’, I’m trying to think way further. What happens when you have a society of people that aren’t in jail, they’re happier, they’re healthier, [and] they’re not dealing with mental health implications? You’ve got less people in jail, less people in the medical health care system, more people [being] creative, innovative, [and] open to building things for good rather than having this inner narrative of shame and regret and fear. To me, this is one of the only things that I’m an absolutist on. I believe that absolutism is generally what’s causing a lot of our world’s chaos and negativity right now, but if you don’t think that psychedelics or drugs in general are a fundamental human right, and if you don’t think they’re actually going to benefit humanity; I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. They are, and they’re doing it in real time, and we will continue to see that change.”
Patrick Moher is an industrious entrepreneur working in psychedelics and cannabis, currently the CEO at Microdose Psychedelic Insights. As a passionate and unapologetic environmentalist, his relentless work ethic has directly translated to previous success in his photography career, as well as founding Ethical Image, co-finding Alan Aldous Communications, Goodwood Accessories, UCannAcademy & and becoming a partner at ADCANN. Patrick is focused on helping combine creativity, CSR, and sustainable profitability for companies. He has a dynamic ability to unite individuals across social and corporate spectrums to create unique business solutions. His dedication to community service has seen him actively collaborate with many volunteer organizations, photograph hundreds of events/portraits/weddings, & sponsor the planting of over 20,000 trees (and counting).
In this episode, Joe interviews Rebecca Kronman, LCSW: Brooklyn-based therapist offering ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, writer, and founder of Plant Parenthood; a digital platform investigating (and de-stigmatizing) the relationship between family and psychedelics.
She dives into the very controversial topics of psychedelics and parenthood and psychedelics and pregnancy, discussing the safety concerns (medical, emotional, spiritual, and legal); the difficulties of drawing conclusions from inadequate data; the many confounding factors in analyzing children born of psychedelic-using parents; the near impossibility of ethically researching the outcomes of pregnancy and psychedelic use; and why, when you consider the multitude of prescription drugs and unnatural foods so many of us consume, does the idea of a mother taking a psychedelic during pregnancy feel so wrong to so many?
And they talk about much more: the need for affinity groups and how the safety they can provide can lead to better decisions; the concept of considering psychedelics as life-saving medicine (or at least a factor towards the happiness (and therefore health) of the parent); the societal scrutiny mothers face; harm reduction; the idea of addiction being a complication of PTSD; drug exceptionalism; and how disclosing drug use to your children is a great opportunity to move the conversation into one of both compassion and injustice.
“When we look at doing an environmental study (where people are already doing this and then we’re looking at the outcomes), then we have another issue, which is the confounding factors. I can’t put you in a bubble and feed you the food that I want to feed you or [not] expose you to environmental toxins …and not expose you to stress in your personal circumstances and your sociocultural circumstances- that’s not a thing. There’s a lot of different substances that birthing parents are exposed to during their pregnancy, and to parse that out and say, ‘Does this one create a birth defect?’ for example; it’s very, very difficult. And maybe not even possible.”
“We need to really take a look at how the criminal justice and child protective system is intervening in cases where yes, [the] birthing parent is using drugs, but does that necessarily mean that they are not parenting adequately? We’ve made the leap that it must be true that if you’re a drug-using parent, you must be an inadequate parent. But that’s bullshit.” “We’re moving into this phase of psychedelics where people are using these as life-saving treatments. Literally. You don’t take away a life-saving treatment during pregnancy. We don’t have a framework for doing that with SSRIS, for example. We don’t have a framework for doing that with heart medication. So why are we thinking about this so differently?”
Rebecca Kronman, LCSW, is a licensed therapist, mother of two and founder of Plant Parenthood, a digital and in-person community of parents who use psychedelics. She is a psychotherapist with a private practice in Brooklyn, New York, where she offers ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and works with clients to prepare for and integrate after psychedelic experiences. She is also a writer, and wrote “Psychedelics and Pregnancy: A Look Into the Safety, Research and Legality” for us.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle speaks with integration specialist, past Navigating Psychedelics student, and Netherlands-based legal psychedelic guide, Liam Farquhar.
Farquhar talks a lot about trauma and how it needs a rebranding: how it’s a far more common part of life than psychiatry has led us to believe, and how it’s much more wide-ranging, in that whatever is overwhelming the body and causing its fight or flight response could really be anything. They talk about Covid-related burnout and the struggle for healthcare workers to show up for patients; how working through trauma is not a rational, “talk it out” process; how the body can’t differentiate between what’s causing it pain; the concept of the body keeping score while the mind hides it; and how the best way to work through trauma might be by physically shaking for long periods of time- an exorcism of energy.
He also talks about his “7 Lens” approach, Internal Family Systems as modern-day shamanism, Peter Levine, the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm (are we stuck in it?), Bernardo Kastrup and idealism, how the brain is a receiver (not creator) of consciousness, how our Self is our best healer, and the idea that even by defining “soma,” we’re separating the mind and the body. This one will definitely get you thinking, folks.
Notable Quotes
“Overcoming [trauma] is primarily a physiological process. Traumas in the body and overcoming it isn’t a rational process. It’s not a thinking process. It’s a much deeper process than that, and in fact, the more you can tune your rational mind down, I’ve found, the more an instinctual healing process can happen; a healing process that our bodies have evolved over millions of years to instinctively know how to do. Often the thinking mind gets in the way of that.”
“I think to say that you don’t work with trauma is to say that you don’t understand trauma.”
“All I do is provide a process using the model where the client interacts with their own parts [and] the parts then tell the client what they need. But the most important relationship to establish in Internal Family Systems is that between the client and their self, because it’s the self that’s always with them, and it’s the self that heals. The self does all the healing. So I simply just support that process. I don’t actually need to be too clever about it. All the answers, all the potential, all the wisdom is within the client.” “Just because we can’t make something falsifiable doesn’t mean it’s not true. We’re reaching the limits of what we can measure. We won’t be able to prove multiverse theory (if that’s true), but it’s not to say that it might not be true. And something like consciousness: How are we going to prove that, really?”
Liam Farquhar is a legal psychedelic guide and integration specialist, working between London and Amsterdam. He also does men’s group work and therapeutic work. He uses a ‘7 Lens’ approach that he developed as the foundation for all his services, combining: Internal Family Systems; Grofian (based on the work of Stanislav Grof); Jungian (based on the work of Carl Jung); Mindfulness; Scientific; Shamanic; and Trauma/Somatic. He is also a past Navigating Psychedelics graduate.
In this episode, Kyle interviews anthropologist, author, ethnomycologist, and now co-designer of a new Psychedelics Today course, Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D.
Like this episode, the course he worked on with Kyle is called “Psychedelics: Past, Present, and Future,” and this podcast serves as a brief overview of what the course goes much further into, from the landmark psychedelic events that brought us here, to the current models of psychedelic-assisted therapy, to the many career avenues that have opened up (and will continue to open up) as a result of this renaissance.
Brown discusses Albert Hofmann’s synthesis of LSD, Stan Grof’s first psilocybin experience, the Nixon administration and the beginnings of the drug war, Roland Griffiths and Walter Pahnke (and Rick Doblin’s follow-up research), the early end-of-life cancer and psilocybin study, the creation of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire, and how Gordon Watson’s betrayal of María Sabina mirrors a lot of what’s going on today between Indigenous tradition and the Western money grab.
He talks about the concerns over Compass Pathways and patent law, how legalization often follows medicalization, how Portugal has handled the drug war, why we need to know our history, and the importance of recognizing the different ways of knowing. And he gives a very detailed description of his life-changing psilocybin journey many years ago that led to the discovery of his soul’s code.
“There’s a difference between standing on the shoulders of giants and crushing the people who have gone before us.” “I was completely blown away by this Jungian synchronicity; this meaningful coincidence of a mental, psychedelic experience and something physical that happened in the world. How could they possibly be connected? But they were obviously connected. And this is the way I found what James Hillman (the psychologist) called my soul’s code.”
“That magic and that resacralization of life’s experience that people talk about; this is a real deal. I mean, if you think about it, many of the founders of the field had transformative, transformational psychedelic experiences that took them from where they were in one part of their life and brought them into working on psychedelics.”
“In both trials, the intensity of the mystical experience described by patients correlated to the degree to which their depression and anxiety decreased. I mean, let’s just think about what this means: We have white-coated shamans in a clinical laboratory administering a synthetic psychedelic to predictably occasion a mystical experience, which turns out to be the key to healing. This is amazing and brings psychedelics back to its shamanic roots.”
Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, author, and ethnomycologist. He is a Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University (FIU) in Miami, where he teaches an online course on “Psychedelics and Culture.” He also co-created the “Psychedelics: Past, Present, and Future” course for us. Professor Brown teaches and writes on psychedelics and religion as well as on psychedelic therapy. He is coauthor (with Julie Brown, LMHC, an integrative psychotherapist and also his wife) of The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity, 2016.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe is in Pennsylvania, fresh from seeing Kyle in person for the first time in years, and they talk decriminalization, peyote, San Pedro, and the dark web.
They first discuss Seattle’s recent unanimous vote to decriminalize the cultivation and sharing of psilocybin, ayahuasca, and non-peyote-derived mescaline, and then look at the flip side of this win: Santa Cruz removing all mescaline-containing cacti from their decriminalization law put into place two years ago. And they wonder: Is San Pedro actually what could keep many people from eating the more endangered peyote? Is there enough research comparing peyote and San Pedro? And they look at the various opinions on the best way to move forward with this conundrum- could it be massive greenhouses growing as much peyote as possible?
They then talk about the news of dark web marketplace, White House Market, shutting down (or “exit scamming”) and the dark web in general: How it democratizes access to drugs; how huge it is for harm-reduction with its very open, Ebay-esque review system; how crazy it is that something so huge can exist with so few people knowing anything about it; and how these things will never truly go away due to the innovation that comes from prohibition.
They also discuss Joe recently recording with Hamilton Morris, South African quaaludes, Will Smith coming out of the psychedelic closet, the “Operation: Fast and Furious” blunder and the many ways our tax dollars are making cartels richer, Delta-8, and what “legal” really means. And after talking about our newlive course offering with Jerry Brown (starting October 26th), Joe attempts to freestyle a commercial forNavigating Psychedelics.
Notable Quotes
“Black markets are never going away. Prohibition never really works. People are creative enough to always work around it, and prohibition seems to incentivize people so that the stricter the rules, the higher-valued the thing is going to be. So there’s always going to be people breaking laws to smuggle and traffic and create when those things are prohibited.” -Joe “We [could] disempower large distribution networks by making it more democratic. If we care about cartel violence, if we care about American drug habits, [and] fueling violence and death in Mexico via potentiated cartels with lots of cash, then anything we can do to take power away from them (like publish secrets [and] publish methods) is good. …What do we have, over 100,000 deaths in Mexico related to the drug war in recent past? Is that worth your son not smoking pot or not ever trying cocaine? 100,000 deaths?” -Joe
“Even if we get to legalize-and-regulate, which is where I want it to be, we’re still going to have a fight ahead of us of like, do these laws make sense? Are they optimal for the culture we’re collectively designing? Or do we need to design our own alternate cultures? Perhaps that’s the solution.” -Joe
What is the ‘Anima Mundi’ and how can it help us understand psychedelic experiences?
This is part of our column ‘Psychedelics in Depth‘ which defines and explains depth psychology topics in the context of psychedelics.
Once upon a time, people saw nature as vividly alive, full of gods, spirits, and beings that existed beyond the realm of human culture. Nature was ensouled, and the earth was animate. In the tradition of depth psychology, this concept is known as the Anima Mundi: the Soul of the world. In this article we will explore the interplay between psychedelics, the earth, and the spirit of place.
Can psychedelics put us in touch with a more-than-human intelligence that emanates from the earth itself? Do certain places carry particular energies or “souls” which psychedelics might allow us to perceive? Finally, what role can psychedelics play situated at the crossroads of nature and culture, especially in this time of dire ecological collapse?
Ask yourself: have you ever felt immersed in some ineffable communication with an aspect of the natural world during a psychedelic experience? Have you ever felt uneasy upon setting foot in certain places, yet unable to say why? Have you ever felt a powerful sensation upon visiting an ancient redwood grove, a stone circle, or one of the earth’s many sacred sites?
Truth be told, there is an extremely high likelihood that most long-time users of psychedelics would report at least one instance of the natural world having a profound influence on their trip in ways that defy rationality.
But before we go any further, a story.
Land Memory and Psychedelics
I work as a psychedelic therapist with MycoMeditations, a legal psilocybin retreat based in Jamaica. I’m fortunate to get detailed insights into a vast array of psychedelic experiences on an almost weekly basis.
During one retreat, a woman shared about a repetitive vision she had during her trips. She explained how, on each mushroom journey, she heard a certain kind of “tribal music”—drumming and singing in an incomprehensible language. During her third and highest dose, she found herself near a campfire glimpsing the “people” responsible for this ecstatic sound. She described them in detail, especially their uniquely pointed heads. She had no explanation for this.
As it happens, the Taino, the Indigenous people of Jamaica and the wider Caribbean, practiced what is known as “cranial shaping,” a method of elongating the skulls of their newborns. This practice, done by many Indigenous peoples of the Americas, was a distinguishing cultural marker of the Taino, who lived in greatest numbers on Jamaica’s south coast—exactly where MycoMeditations happens to be based.
In fact, the very stretch of coast where our retreats occur, an area now called Treasure Beach, is known as an archaeologically rich zone for Taino pottery, confirming this region as one of, if not the most significant ancient centers for the Jamaican Taino population.
As a colleague informed me, guests having visions of “pointy-headed people” was not something new to her. She was utterly unfazed by this seemingly inexplicable synchronicity.
What do we make of this? Despite mounting research, there is still a healthy dose of mystery lingering about these plants and molecules. To discard her experience as meaningless, or simply ‘coincidence,’ either briskly diminishes its significance and robs her of potential avenues for meaning-making—the very antithesis of psychedelic therapy and integration—or reveals something concerning about the practitioner themselves.
No psychedelic facilitator worth their salt attempts to dictate the meaning behind someone’s experience.
Depth psychology would have us take seriously these moments of exchange between the human psyche and the living earth, and encourage us to lean into these liminal crossroads of perception. For if myth and medicine tells us anything, it is that the most fertile ground for growth is where our domesticated understanding of life ends and the wild unknown of the forest begins.
The Anima Mundi and the Ensouled World
Yet, why is it that the idea of a tree or a river or a gust of wind having something to say to us is so unsettling? Why is the notion of an ‘inanimate object’ having some claim on our senses so confronting to the modern Western psyche?
Author and professor of history, Theodore Roszak, who coined the term ecopsychology (along with counterculture, interestingly enough,) wrote in his book Voice of the Earth, “If we could assume the viewpoint of nonhuman nature, what passes for sane behavior in our social affairs might seem madness. But as the prevailing reality principle would have it, nothing could be greater madness than to believe that beast and plant, mountain and river have a ‘point of view.”
To believe that the natural world has a point of view, or is ‘ensouled’, as archetypal psychologist James Hillman explored in his book, Re-Visioning Psychology, is to understand that rocks and waterfalls contain an equally relevant quality of psyche that allows for avenues of communication between our two seemingly disparate beings.
The idea that the world itself has a Soul, and is therefore an animate, even conscious being, is one of the most radical notions within the depth tradition. Carl Jung deemed this old idea the Anima Mundi: a concept with rootsgoing far back into esoteric religious and mystical traditions such as hermeticism, gnosticism, kabbala, and of course countless Indigenous traditions across the world.
Tracing European culture’s disconnection from this ancient notion of the ensouled earth, Jung wrote in his Collected Works Volume 11, “The development of Western philosophy during the last two centuries has succeeded in isolating the mind in its own sphere and in severing it from its primordial oneness with the universe. Man himself has ceased to be the microcosm and eidolon [image] of the cosmos, and his ‘anima’ is no longer the consubstantial scintilla, spark of the Anima Mundi, World Soul.”
The research on psychedelics’ capacity to dissolve the ego and increase one’s connection to nature places these substances in direct conversation with the climate crises, which could be seen as an equally, if not even more valuable benefit of psychedelics.
Embracing the notion of the Anima Mundi can help us navigate and integrate psychedelic experiences that blur the culturally constructed lines that our society would have us believe separates humanity from the living earth.
In this regard, the Anima Mundi and depth psychology asks us to question many pillars of European thought, specifically the legacy of Enlightenment thinkers like René Descartes, whose work marked a decisive turning point by cleaving apart any remaining threads of pagan belief, which connected European consciousness to the living earth.
The Research: Nature-Relatedness and Psychedelics
If generations of ceremonial plant medicine use by Indigenous people across the globe was not sufficient evidence, current research shows us that psychedelics can foster a greater sense of connectedness to the natural world. A 2019 study by Kettner et al. concluded that a sense of “nature relatedness was significantly increased 2 weeks, 4 weeks, and 2 years after a psychedelic experience”, and that the frequency of lifetime psychedelic use was positively correlated to a baseline sense of nature relatedness in healthy participants.
Concluding their research, Kettner et al. wrote: “With the loss of self-referential boundaries being a defining characteristic of ego-dissolution experiences under psychedelics, as well as experiences of awe in nature, it may be that the loss of perceived boundaries between the self and the other may in turn facilitate an expanded perception of self/nature continuity or overlap, reflected by increased feelings of nature relatedness.”
This discussion of “self/nature continuity or overlap,” invokes and calls into question the legacy of Descartes mentioned above. Indeed, it places these types of psychedelic experiences squarely in the other corner from centuries of Western philosophy and worldviews. In the age of global climate collapse, the implications of this research cannot be understated.
Current research on psychedelic medicine’s potential to treat many intractable mental health issues is invaluable, to be sure. As a mental health professional, I could not be more thrilled. Yet, the research on psychedelics’ capacity to dissolve the ego and increase one’s connection to nature places these substances in direct conversation with the climate crises, which could be seen as an equally, if not even more valuable benefit of psychedelics.
Defining Anima and Animism
Many Indigenous traditions embrace what anthropologists called an “animistic” way of perception, and have woven it into their cosmologies, ceremonies, and the very fabric of their cultural belief systems. The personification of plants and places within certain Indigenous traditions, especially terms like “madre ayahuasca”, “grandfather peyote”, or “La Pastora” (one of the many Mazatec names for Salvia divinorum) plainly acknowledges that there is more going on within the earth than an “inanimate” accumulation of minerals and dirt.
From my own time spent with Indigenous peoples from many different cultures, as well as years of formal academic study in anthropology, religion, and depth psychology, this is one of the clearest messages that I’ve received: the earth does indeed have something to say to us, if only we can remember how to listen.
Indigenous ways have always been relevant to depth psychology because of this very understanding, that the earth is undeniably ensouled, living, sentient, and worthy of respect. Psychedelics can play a crucial role in helping many people remember this humble fact, and guide us down a path which, at heart, requires a style of listening, reverence, and attention which our culture has quite painfully forgotten.
Anima Mundi for Facilitators: Relationship to Place, Grief and Soul
Now would be a reasonable time to ask how any of this applies to actually working with people navigating and integrating psychedelic experiences.
To start, establishing some form of relationship to the actual land where one’s work takes place is the bare minimum. Learn about the Indigenous people of your particular place, who they are and were, and any Indigenous place names you can manage to dig up; even better if you can learn it in person from their living descendants, and cultivate a relationship with them.
The story shared at the beginning of this article would have not meant much to me if I were ignorant of the Taino people and their particular practice of shaping their skulls. Uncovering the untold story of the land, its ecological and geological timeline, and especially its history of human migration, colonization, and modernization, must factor into a holistically grounded relationship with a place.
Sitting with the raw story of a place often leads one down the dark stairwell of grief. This is a good thing. But it is wise to be prepared for it, and to know how to support others who may find themselves immersed in a story whose weight might be much more than they can bear. Grief, however, can be one of the most profound gateways to feeling, and therefore to the Soul. Psychedelic experiences which bring one face to face with land-grief are important because they are emanations from the place itself. One could say that it is one of the earth’s many attempts to speak to human beings—a process which we have conditioned ourselves to largely ignore.
Finally, cultivating one’s own relationship to the natural world, to the unique curvature and temperament of a place, will inform what occurs when the mists of the otherworld begin to encircle one’s perception. Personally, before any psychedelic journey, I offer some tobacco, and ask permission from whatever ancestors called that place home. You wouldn’t just wander into someone’s house without knocking first. There are many reasons for doing this, the least of all being that it’s simply polite.
Closing Thoughts on Anima Mundi and Psychedelics
Psychedelics can provide a key to unlocking our culturally fractured and traumatized relationship to the natural world, and its indwelling Soul, the Anima Mundi. Psychedelics have the capacity to dissolve the ego and open one to experiences of awe in nature, which in turn help a sense of greater nature relatedness take root.
As individuals, we need awe-inspiring encounters with the Anima Mundi which crack open the ego and reveal the Soul. As a culture, we are in dire need of a renewed sense of reverence and respect for the more than-human-world, which psychedelics may be able to instill in our increasingly adrift society. And as ensouled beings, we need deeply personal, Soul-level encounters with something greater than ourselves, which help us remember how to listen to the language being sung all around us.
The other road, I’m sorry to say, is bleak.
The poet-philosopher Goethe knew this when he wrote, “And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow, you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth.”
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Cadoch, MA: Medical Anthropologist, former Executive Director of the Montreal Psychedelic Society, and current Research Manager working at Maya Public Benefit Corporation.
She talks about her psychedelic path and two most important pieces of research: First, how the rites of passage one experiences at a psytrance festival emulates the traditional ritual structure (and how the reintegration back into society is the most important part), and second; the concerns for people in long-term recovery and 12-step programs using substances therapeutically, for getting off their problematic substances, and even recreationally (when those substances have been labelled “dangerous drugs” their whole lives).
She discusses Maya, a platform where psychedelic therapists can gain better insights into their practices by learning from one another’s reports, developing better, more consistent protocols, and creating better qualitative questions and measures for patients. She’s now seeing her main role as bridging the gap between nonprofits and for-profits.
And as this was the rare time Joe was able to record in-person, this episode feels a bit more conversational and far-ranging than some. They also discuss how people view different substances based on if they’re man-made or not, spiritual bypassing, Carl Hart and the dangers of drug exceptionalism, the need to decriminalize all drugs, the Nacirema people, 12-step programs and the risks of 13th steppers, how our culture views medicine as gospel, and how we all need to stop the in-fighting and division within our psychedelic communities and learn to work with the big corporations many are scared of.
Notable Quotes
“What is the real definition of ‘recreational’? It’s to recreate and to reconnect and maybe to fix things. So we have these really strange conceptions around recreational use being almost like an antithesis to therapeutic use.”
“I do not enjoy psychedelic exceptionalism, particularly because I did that. I did that with my best friend who died of heroin. I said, ‘My drugs are better than your drugs. You should come do LSD with me instead.’ And what did that do? It made her feel judged, it pushed me away further, and I almost didn’t get to speak with her before she died to say sorry. And that’s what psychedelic exceptionalism can do, is it puts people who are using other substances into a category lower and lesser.” “In thinking about where [we’re] going with this movement, it’s up to us. We get to write this script, and we get to be a part of it, which is why it’s really important to be in the conversations with the big companies rather than to run away from them.”
“The way that we believe in science is so cultural. We’ll believe it in the same way that another culture might have this faith in a sacrament or might have faith in a certain crystal or a rock. …We idolize the research paper.”
Jessica is a Medical Anthropologist working at Maya Public Benefit Corporation (PBC) as a Research Manager. As the former Executive Director of the Montreal Psychedelic Society, Jessica is passionate about bridging the non-for-profit and for profit world of psychedelic initiatives. With a particular interest in the intermingling of 12-step methods of managing addiction and psychedelic-assisted therapy, Jessica is concerned with ensuring that psychedelic practices are carefully and ethically integrated into modern Western society and culture. Email her at: jessica@mayahealth.com
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle discusses Hulu’s show, “Nine Perfect Strangers“ with previous guest, Dr. Ido Cohen.
If you haven’t watched “Nine Perfect Strangers” yet, it’s a show that takes place at a boutique wellness resort, promising healing to nine stressed city dwellers as they begin a 10-day retreat. This episode (which does contain spoilers!) focuses on the themes portrayed in the show and how they relate to the psychedelic space, looking at the role of community and accountability when abuse is happening within healing containers (whether at a retreat or in the larger community). They also look at the negative aspects of the show such as poor protocol, lack of consent, and the facilitator, Masha, having her own agenda and providing trauma treatment without being trauma-informed.
For those of us doing our own healing, how do we develop boundaries on saying no when something doesn’t feel right, but let those boundaries down when they take away something meaningful or helpful? How do we learn to discern when the space isn’t more important than the abuse within it? How do we distinguish between a desire for healing and a desperation for it?
Hopefully, shows like “Nine Perfect Strangers” open space for us to think together as a community and create more integrity, support, and honesty around facilitators and psychedelic retreats. And hopefully they also encourage us to become more empowered to acknowledge in ourselves when to draw the line when we don’t feel safe.
Notable Quotes
“When you open yourself up with plants or psychedelics, you really give the other person a non-verbal permission to look deeply at yourself. You’re really putting yourself in someone else’s hands in a very, very vulnerable way, even if you’re an experienced psychonaut.” -Ido
“I think when it comes to abuse, the lines should be very clear. If someone is touching someone inappropriately, that’s what it means. There is no working around it. If you feel repetitively shamed or you don’t feel safe in your body or you feel confused around someone repetitively, that’s a sign. “ -Ido
“Needing that element of death, a real threatening of our safety, does produce something within us at times. It gets us to some sort of experience that goes, ‘Holy shit, this is real.’” -Kyle
Dr. Ido Cohen is based in San Francisco, working with individuals, couples, and groups, and the Founder of The Integration Circle. Ido has been working with individuals and groups in the context of preparing, understanding, integrating, and implementing experiences from altered states of consciousness for the last 7 years. He also has supervised doctoral interns at the California Institute of Integral Studies for the last 4 years. Using Jungian, relational, and holistic psychologies, as well as eastern/shamanic and kabbalistic cosmologies, Ido believes in the ability to work psycho-spiritually and turn the lived experience into knowledge and a meaningful, embodied, and whole life.
In this episode, Joe interviews Boston-based teacher, coach, facilitator, and podcaster, Gibrán Rivera.
Rivera talks about the importance and benefits of group process: How we’re in a crisis of meaning and connection, and group work creates the structure of belonging so many people need. And they dig into the spectrum of healing itself: How so much Western psychedelic work is hyper-individualized, but over time, with spiritual maturation and self-sovereignty, the act of helping others can become a necessary part of one’s own healing journey.
He talks about affinity groups, how different groups can have their own distinct energy, and his “What Should White People Do?” project, which aims to add a mythos to the act of learning history and trying to improve on past mistakes. And he talks a lot about masculinity: How the recent focus on toxic masculinity, to many, has felt like a demonization of any masculinity, and how The Better Men Project aims to rethink masculinity as not only a good thing that’s needed in this world, but also as the perfect compliment to femininity; and how, to truly grow, it’s best to learn how to embody the best aspects of both and not repress the direction you’re most drawn to.
They also discuss Puerto Rico, how trauma can be weaponized, decentralization, the idea of saying ‘congratulations’ to news of divorce, how social movements often give people a license to hate, the concept of emergent consciousness dialogue, the commodification of experience, the dangers of focusing too much on the abstractions in psychedelic trips, rites of passage, Holotropic Breathwork, and the importance of shaking your hips.
Notable Quotes
“We live in a culture that yields anxiety, that yields depression, that yields loneliness. That is a crisis of meaning and a crisis of connection. And so, we can use these medicines to adapt ourselves to a culture that is unhealthy, or we can work with these medicines to actually shift the culture. But we don’t shift the culture just by improving our mental health and spiritual health. That helps, but it is about what we’re doing together that matters.”
“There’s something good in masculinity, something that the world needs. And we are here to try to remember what that is, to make it a conscious thing, to embody conscious masculinity rather than toxic masculinity. We have a well-developed discourse on toxic masculinity, but a very undeveloped discourse on what conscious masculinity is.”
“To the male psychonauts in this space: …this can be such a place where you discover so much of yourself, but if you’re doing it alone, if you’re tripping hard and only going towards abstraction, if you are not learning to come into your body, if your heart is not opening, if you’re not making yourself more vulnerable to others; all of that understanding, all of that awe, all of that seeing- you’re only getting halfway there. I just know so many psychonauts that are in that trip, in that super heady trip, and I’m just saying: Let the energy move down into your body, not just in your head, not just [being] in awe of what is happening. Feel it. Let your heart break. Let yourself be held. Do this work with others, and learn to become a person that way.”
Gibrán Rivera is a teacher, coach, guide, and Master Facilitator. He is devoted to the development of leaders and leadership networks. He works to help figure out how to thrive in times of VUCA (Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity, Ambiguity). Gibrán is the originator of the Evolutionary Leadership Workshop, host of the Better Men Project, and one of the teachers of What Should White People Do? His work brings close attention to dynamics of power, equity, and inclusion. He has designed and facilitated the coming together of some of the most prestigious fellowships in the country, and he specializes in transformational offsite retreats. His work is based on the understanding that our next evolutionary leap depends on trust and the currency of love, and he is devoting his life to defining better ways of being together in this world.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and tackle a question we are often asked at Psychedelics Today: “How do I get involved in the psychedelic field?”
While Kyle wrote apretty helpful blog about this a few years back, they dig in deeper this time, really highlighting the various paths one could take, from the more obvious roles we typically see (therapists, clinicians, guides, trip-sitters, scientists, researchers, and journalists) to the less-discussed (politicians, marketers, artists, accountants, SEO experts, social media consultants, and more). It’s really about figuring out what skills you have and what you could bring to the emerging field, what solutions you could find answers to, and what’s realistic based on your experience, age, geography, willingness to learn, and degree to which psychedelics are involved. And would you still want to take that path if they weren’t? Could your path simply be doing what you’re good at for a company involved in psychedelics?
They discuss the benefits of volunteering, attending any event you can (to both learn and network), and even just starting a club and letting the power of community steer your direction. And they touch on a bit more: how some educational programs don’t allow the underground to participate, how body shame affects the body, and how somatic energy and bodywork can be enhanced by psychedelics. Hopefully this podcast helps you take your first step down a new and exciting journey!
Notable Quotes
“Models should improve over time, and you can contribute to us collectively evolving our models. And what is this relationship, long-term, that we’re trying to culture here between psychedelics and the human race? I think there’s a lot. How do we go ahead and manifest that mindset that might save the world from ecological collapse, [and] re-enable families to be healthy systems again? …There’s plenty of issues out there. You’ve just got to pick a couple or one or two and just really go for it. There’s no way any of us as individuals are going to take on every issue out there. Revel a little bit in your limited scope.” -Joe
“There are going to be limits to primate knowledge. This kind of brain is going to only go so far, so when we’re dealing with these really strange frontiers like psychedelics, we should just respect that. The mystery might just keep on going.” -Joe
“You can get involved in the psychedelic space. There’s plenty of room for everybody. This is going to be a really, really big space as things come more online, more states have legal access, more countries have legal access, [and] things are approved by the FDA. There’s going to be room for probably everybody who’s listening to this podcast today and more. So stay tuned, figure out where you want to go, get a nice foundation, and see if you can make some progress.” -Joe
Microdosing TikTok is a vibrant community of everyday people researching and experimenting with microdosing for mental health, and finding support in the process.
What if I told you that the microdosing movement has taken TikTok by storm? Or that TikTok wasn’t just a place for dancing or kids, but a community connecting people in a unique way? Now a cultural force, TikTok has even been invaded by psychedelics, specifically the microdosing movement. And I was there to see it unfold.
When people said I should join TikTok, I politely told everyone the same things you probably think right now. It was for kids, it was for dancing, it was too conservative for people like me mainly because I am the founder of a cannabis company. And of course, who needs another social media app in our already connected world? But during quarantine I (like many) eventually caved, and I found myself trying to make sense of an app that truly felt like another world.
At first, every word I tried to say was censored and I found myself unable to even post about my own business or much of anything outside my dog. I learned the sophistication level of TikTok’s algorithm is part of its beauty and design, and because it’s a Chinese-based company it is skilled at censorship. And don’t get me wrong, censorship is prevalent on all social media apps, but TikTok is inarguably the most strict.
Author Olivia Alexander’s viral microdosing TikTok that put her on the ‘FYP’ for the first time and connected her to a vibrant community.
As a cannabis social media influencer, I’ve dealt with my fair share of getting ‘deleted’ (when an app deletes your profile) and eventually lost 1.5 million followers on Instagram in 2017. On TikTok, I couldn’t find anything to talk about that was both authentic to me and interesting to the audience. Then one day I tried something new, I told my mental health story about being bipolar and how microdosing completely transformed my life. Given the level of censorship, I didn’t say or show much, just a photo series of myself along my journey. You could see the changes, the impact, and the joy in my face. That’s when it happened—I got my first taste of the FYP.
That’s the ‘For You Page’ in TikTok lingo. The app explains the FYP as “a curated feed of videos from creators you might not follow, but TikTok’s algorithm thinks you will like based on your interests and past interactions.” Once I made it to the FYP, I had my first bonafied ‘hit’ and two things were obvious: The first was that microdosing had slipped through the cracks of TikTok’s censorship algorithms, and the second was that the audience craved more.
It’s hard to describe what happens on TikTok when your video lands on the FYP. To be honest, in the past 15 years of being on social media, I have never seen or felt anything like it. The views, comments, and follows piled up—fast. I was in sheer disbelief that I had stumbled upon something that people wanted to know more about that also wasn’t censored by TikTok. In the months to come, I would be connected to a community I could never have imagined in my wildest dreams.
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Why Choose TikTok for Microdosing Info and Community?
The TikTok community, much like I was, is mentally ill, yet at the same time disillusioned by the mental health system; they’re also desperate for healing, while being courageous and hopeful. I was excited to tell my story—despite being a relative newcomer to psychedelics—I’m farther along on my microdose journey than most TikTokers, and I wanted to use this new, powerful platform to share what I’ve learned. Over the next few months I began to contribute pieces of short form content daily from ‘How I Got Off Pharmaceuticals’, to my viral recap of microdosing with LSD for 30 days, to my mother’s microdosing journey.
Was it that microdosing—the act of ingesting 1/10th to 1/20th of a psychedelic substance for enhanced mood rather than classic psychedelic effects—was so new or was it that the psychedelic movement had successfully evaded TikTok’s strict censorship policies?
If you saw the TikTok hashtag #microdosing, which had 60 million views until it was removed in mid-August, 2021, you probably witnessed the broad spectrum of people and their reasons for microdosing. TikTok is a place where people with authentic stories and interesting lives thrive; where you don’t need to be a celebrity to be an influencer, you can just be you. Mental health TikTokers regularly show off their meds, spill revelations from therapists, and share both their traumas and explorations in healing. Microdose TikTok heavily intersects with mental health, fitness, and wellness TikTok. Even with censorship of the microdosing hashtag, the community has continued to evolve and share microdosing content. In the world of ‘the Tok’, there’s an ever evolving lexicon created to skirt the app’s advancing censorship. So soon #microdos or #mycrodose will replace #microdosing like #ouid replaced #weed.
What you’ll find in certain communities of TikTok is that you are encouraged to be yourself, which is unlike other social media platforms where a more polished version of yourself is rewarded. The people who use and create content on TikTok—referred to as ‘creators’—are as unique as the algorithm itself. And unlike other social media apps, these creators can see a quick rise, thrusting them into the spotlight, allowing them to share their journey and experiences with thousands of people seemingly overnight.
One of the most beautiful things I have found at the intersection of microdosing and TikTok are the vibrant people who tell their stories. The bravery it takes to share your life online is often overlooked by people who don’t do it or look down on social media. It’s a compelling array of stories and personal experiences that could be such a benefit to the psychedelic and scientific communities, especially at a time when microdosing research is so desperately needed.
There’s something about TikTok’s design that makes you feel instantly seen, heard, and validated, and connects you with others in an authentic way. It’s why I believe the work of psychedelic and microdosing creators is so effective and special. Being seen and heard is an important and valuable part of the healing and integration process that’s built right into the platform.
The first person I ever saw cruising the FYP was Veronica Ridge, a hair stylist who shares her story of microdosing for ADHD with candid and endearing videos that her husband Patrick Ridge, also a well-known content creator with 16 years of sobriety, often joins. Veronica’s content about microdosing was endearing and approachable; even though she was microdosing for different reasons, seeing her content made me feel less alone. I was excited to see someone else normalizing microdosing.
Next I discovered TikTok’s microdosing mom (TikTok loves moms), Coach Kathleen who has over 130K followers. Coach Kathleen, a long time coach who focuses primarily on CEOs and executives, told me she went to TikTok after seeing the speed in which users go viral. Since then, she has garnered tens of millions of views on the app. In one of her largest videos, she explains how psilocybin affects the brain’s ‘default mode network’ that has a whopping 8 million views.
Coach Kathleen’s educational content and frequent ‘lives’ (specifically microdosing Q&A’s) are much needed support to the TikTok microdosing community. Live is another feature that drives authentic conversations and page growth for creators. It allows users to get to know creators on a much more intimate level. Creators who activate these features often see their communities blossom way beyond what they imagined their reach could be.
There are also athletes and coaches like CoachJeremy305, who has over 875K followers and who has been a long time fixture on the FYP page sharing how microdosing has aided in his fitness and wellness journey. He often encourages his audience to avoid alcohol and frequently posts psychedelic legislation updates.
Another creator, HolisticHustle, who calls herself “a crunchy mom with depression” has over 60K followers, shares her microdosing and parenthood journey. She focuses a fair amount of her content at the intersections of microdosing, motherhood, and healing her own generational trauma.
While some will write off TikTok as another social media app, I truly believe that would be doing a disservice to everyone. Believe it or not, TikTok has become a cultural mecca and there is so much to learn about people and community on this app. With the culmination of the mental health crisis, opioid epidemic, and of course the COVID-19 pandemic, people needed a virtual space where they feel safe to share, and TikTok has been the answer for a lot of people.
“TikTok has influenced my microdosing journey in the most positive way. Just following you and watching your lives has helped me tons!” Zenia, a 37-year-old mom of three kids who had resigned from her job to run an online business in order to spend more time with her children, tells Psychedelics Today. “Hearing how open and real you are about your journey and experiences made me want to do my own research and create experiences through my own journey.”
“It took me a while and lots of research to start my journey because it was such a new concept to me, but I’m glad I did!” Zenia continues. “I have really felt at home knowing that there is a huge community out there going through what I’m going through.”
This content is serving so much more than likes and views to the creator. It’s carrying microdosing to people who desperately need to know there are other alternatives, and giving them a place to share their microdosing experiences within a community. On TikTok, we see ourselves in the popular creators and feel hopeful for a new therapeutic tool, like microdosing. Plus, TikTokers, like many, are terrified to even speak to their doctors about psychedelics, but are completely out of traditional pharmaceutical options. So by finding community on TikTok, they find hope, access, and most of all, people just like them being transformed in a way they dreamed of for themselves.
“I discovered microdosing [on TikTok] in January of 2021. In the fall of 2020, after almost a year of unemployment and the utter failure of my romantic relationship (epic implosion), I decided it was time for me to go off of the anti-anxiety/anti-depression pill I’d been on for the past three years. By the end of the year I wanted to learn more about how I might holistically begin to heal myself and by chance, I saw a TikTok where you’d discussed your journey with mental health, pharmaceuticals and microdosing popped up and I thought the universe must have heard my heart because this was exactly what I was looking for,” Jen, a 38-year-old project manager from NY tells Psychedelics Today. “I went through all of the videos and consumed the information like a fire. I looked up the Microdosing Institute, reached out to Psychedelic.support, spoke to and described microdosing to my personal support circle of family and friends (and urged them to do their own research), found a support group online and based in my region and reached out on Instagram to find my own healer who could act as a guide. By February, I had all of the resources to begin my first journey and so I did at the end of March.”
Microdosing and TikTok Are the Future: Will the Psychedelic Community Join?
Over my time on TikTok I have been able to come to a unique understanding of the sheer magnitude and scale of the future surrounding the psychedelic space as an industry and the mental health crisis it will be meeting. I sit up late at night and worry about the time it will take for real progress and access for the countless people who endlessly direct message me for help. I feel hopeful for the clinical trials on psychedelics, for FDA approval of these drugs as medicine, and for the legalization of psychedelics because Gen Z and Millenials are not the generations of the past.
We want to be part of the future where entheogens are regulated and accessible. We want to appreciate, know, respect, and understand Indigenous practices. We wish we could talk to our therapists, psychiatrists, and psychologists about alternative treatments. We will fight for a future where universal health care covers psychedelic therapy. But for now, we are struggling with mental health—and with the COVID-19 pandemic, there’s new people arriving to the struggle everyday. We’re dealing with despair, isolation, and the side effects of antidepressants for the first time in a broken and overloaded system, and we need help wherever we can get it.
In the unlikeliest of places I have seen and felt a snapshot of humanity that was simply unexpected. A place built so perfectly imperfect, like humans themselves, that even with censorship and sophisticated algorithms alike it could not be stopped or suppress the needs of the people. And it’s my greatest hope that progress, unity, science, Indigenous and modern culture can coexist for the greatest success for all. In the race for the golden ticket of the burgeoning psychedelic industry, TikTok has shown me what’s really at stake—our mental health and wellbeing. I hope more clinicians, researchers, leaders, and companies in the space take on the challenge of joining the rest of the community.
The cultural storm and human need for psychedelics can’t be stopped or slowed down because of the sheer speed of social media, and the psychedelic community can do the important work during this digital age on an app where the impact can be truly astounding.
This next chapter of the psychedelic renaissance will not be televised, it will be on TikTok and I hope the psychedelic community will pay attention.
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
A Webinar showcasing our newest series with Jerry Brown, PSYCHEDELICS: PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE: Emerging Careers and Professional Specializations in Psychedelics.
Join us on Tuesday, Sept 28th for a special 90-minute webinar with Jerry Brown. The webinar will begin with a presentation followed by Q&A.
This webinar will give you an overview of the six main topics covered in the course with emphasis on applications for healthcare practitioners and mental health professionals.
Some topics to be discussed include:
· 10 Landmarks in Psychedelic History
· Psychedelics in Shamanism and World Religions
· Inner Journeys: Psychedelics for Passion and Purpose
· Psychedelic Renaissance and Mystical Experience
· Business, Law, and Public Policy
· Emerging Career Opportunities
This webinar will take place at 2:00 pm EST, via Zoom
Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, ethnomycologist, and award-winning educator. He is Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University (FIU) in Miami, where he teaches a course on “Psychedelics and Culture.”
In this episode, Joe and Kyle decided to celebrate 9/20 by sitting down with friend, writer, Editor in Chief of the blog, and past Solidarity Friday member, Michelle Janikian.
Before Michelle was part of the PT team, she was one of our more popular podcast guests (in a very mushroom-heavy episode), and the writer of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, a safety-focused and informative guidebook highlighting the many ways mushrooms can be used. So it made perfect sense to spend the mushroom holiday episode checking in with her and talking some psilocybin. She talks about what inspired her to write the book, the importance of learning how to trip and fostering a relationship with mushrooms, how using mushrooms solely for personal healing feels self-centered and a bit boring, the common opinion of many psychonauts that you need to do a large dose for your first time, the concept of mushrooms as tricksters who may be trying to hurt you, the joy of foraging, how much we all tend to romanticize Indigenous culture and perceived wisdom, and the value of being honest with yourself about what you want out of a psychedelic experience and developing your own rituals. And she talks about what’s been biggest in her life recently: the time she spent living in the house she was raised in as her parents prepared it to be sold, and how doing mushrooms there after all these years not only made her feel reconnected to the house and its surrounding woods in a special way, but also gave her a ton of new gratitude for what her parents did to provide that for her. She feels much closer to her parents now and wants to have a mushroom or MDMA session with them- something many of us could benefit greatly from. If you want to win a free signed copy of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion and a whole host of other great mushroom and psychedelic-themed stuff, make sure to enter our huge 920 giveaway before it ends tonight at midnight! Happy Holidays!
Notable Quotes
“I feel like when folks only make their psychedelic work about healing, it seems a bit self-centered. It does feel a bit like if you make it all about yourself and healing your problems, …to the plant and the rest of the universe, [that] kind of seems a bit petty, perhaps. Not to be rude- we all deserve to heal ourselves, but I think that when we go in with just an intention to do that, we’re putting blinders on, …and we are not going to be able to see the rest of what’s going on here. It’s bigger than you.”
“Mushrooms are tricksters. We have to be a bit careful as a culture, welcoming mushrooms in. I mean, sure, let’s do it, they’re fun- they’re the life of the party. They should absolutely be part of our culture. But giving them so much responsibility, like healing mental illness of the world, for me, I don’t know if that’s actually the best idea, as someone who communicates and listens to them quite often.”
“People who use mushrooms are quite smart, and I think a lot of them are being ignored or not part of this new conversation, and that’s a shame. It shouldn’t be like that. I think a lot of them want nothing to do with this new clinical world either. They’re like, ‘Ehh, you can have that. I have my ritual, and it works for me.’ And I just want people to develop their own rituals and find out what works for them. That’s why I collected so many in one place, so you can kind of pick and choose what’s right to you. Everyone’s different. And in the true ‘think for yourself and question authority’ manner, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion: It’ll help you figure it out. I don’t know if you really need everyone else telling you what to do. I think you know what you want to do, you’ve just got to listen.”
Michelle Janikian is a journalist and the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion (Ulysses Press, 2019), the down-to-earth guide that details everything you need to know about taking magic mushrooms safely and mindfully. Michelle actively covers psychedelic and cannabis education, harm reduction, and research in her work, which has been featured in Playboy, Rolling Stone, High Times, DoubleBlind Mag and others. Currently, she’s the editor-in-chief of Psychedelics Today and an occasional co-host of their podcast. She’s passionate about the healing potential of psychedelic plants and substances, and the legalization and de-stigmatization of all drugs. Find out more about her work on her website michellejanikian.com or follow her on Instagram (@michelle.janikian), Twitter (@m00shian) and Facebook (@Michelle.Janikian).
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle are joined by return guest Jesse Gould: Founder and President of the Heroic Hearts Project, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit helping military veterans find healing through psychedelic-assisted therapy.
Gould discusses the acceleration of the Heroic Hearts Project over the last few years and the need for UK and Canadian divisions, SB-519’s progress and how its pause can be seen as a good thing, Oregon’s trajectory and how what happens there will be a model to build on, how the container around a drug experience can make all the difference, how silly it is to put psilocybin through the same research ringer we put new drugs through, and his feelings on leaving Afghanistan and the trauma soldiers are already experiencing as a result.
And he talks about new allies and the many projects they’re involved in, how we need to look at what models haven’t worked and create ones that do, and the biggest challenges he sees right now: 1) creating more long-term, multidisciplinary, integration and community-based models of care, and 2) making sure that if these drugs go the medical, insurance-based route, we take care of the people who often fall through the cracks of those traditional systems. And he reminds us that while small failures are frustrating, it’s important to put things in context: Not every measure will be perfect and not every bill will pass, but slowly, many politicians are changing their minds, and every small step is just that- a stepping stone in the right direction.
It costs about $4,000 to drastically change 1 veteran’s life through the Heroic Hearts Project, so pleasedonate.
Notable Quotes
“They have the initial reaction, they have the stigma of ‘those are bad, those are for crazy hippies.’ But when they see what’s going on right now (the science, the people that are actually being helped, especially veteran communities), for politicians; it’s hard for them to ignore. And to their credit, a lot of them will listen to the evidence, listen to what people are saying, listen to their constituents (which is the point of the public servant) and change their mind.”
“A lot of enthusiasm around psychedelics is that they do a lot of the heavy lifting and they have all the fireworks and all the things that grab our attention, which can oftentimes overshadow all the small details before, after, and throughout that are absolutely essential.”
“The way to really empower voices and the way to make change, I think, is you have to heal trauma first. For people to actually come back, learn from their story, and help others, they need to be helped first. So that’s the first step that we’re trying to help out, because there’s nothing more powerful than a veteran that’s gone through a program, that’s been completely reaffirmed in their life.” “A lot of the people you see that are dedicating their lives or are advocates, or changing, about-facing on this; it’s because they’ve had personal healing or healing within their family. You’re starting to get other groups (the ones that are looking to make money and all this other kind of stuff) but the core group and the ones that continue to be the loudest voices are still those that saw the light, that saw healing. And so I think that comes with sincerity of trying to push it forward.”
Jesse Gould is Founder and President of the Heroic Hearts Project, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit pioneering psychedelic therapies for military veterans. After being deployed as an Army Ranger in Afghanistan three times, he founded the Heroic Hearts Project in 2017 to spearhead the acceptance and use of ayahuasca therapy as a means of addressing the current mental health crisis among veterans. The Heroic Hearts Project has raised over $350,000 in scholarships from donors including Dr. Bronner’s and partnered with the world’s leading ayahuasca treatment centers, as well as sponsoring psychiatric applications with the University of Colorado Boulder and the University of Georgia. Jesse helps shape treatment programs and spreads awareness of plant medicine as a therapeutic method. He has spoken globally about psychedelics and mental health, and received accolades including being recognized as one of the Social Entrepreneurs To Watch For In 2020 by Cause Artist. Driven by a mission to help military veterans struggling with mental trauma, he is best known for his own inspiring battle with PTSD and his recovery through ayahuasca therapy.
Understanding what spiritual emergence and spiritual emergency are, how they differ from psychosis, and how to integrate them as a psychedelic traveler or practitioner.
This is part of our ongoing series on transpersonal psychology and how it can help us understand psychedelic experiences. Check out part 1, ‘What is Transpersonal Psychology?’ here.
In recent years there has been a resurgence of interest in the therapeutic potentials of psychedelic substances within both clinical and non-clinical settings, with many seeking out psychedelics and plant medicines for spiritual purposes and attempts at self-healing. Psychedelics have the ability to catalyze immense shifts in our understanding and perceptions of reality as well as the potential to bring forth that which is latent within the psyche. Although the sudden eruption of psychic content or change in ways of seeing the world is at the core of psychedelic healing, it can be a destabilizing process that occasionally triggers a type of unintended psychological distress known as “spiritual emergency.”
Our new 12-month certificate program, Vital, begins April 19th. Registration is closed, but sign up for the waitlist for next year’s edition now at vitalpsychedelictraining.com!
What Is Spiritual Emergency?
The term “spiritual emergency” was introduced to the field of transpersonal psychology by psychiatrist Stanislav Grof and his late wife, psychotherapist Christina Grof, in the 1980s to refer to a kind of spiritual or transformative crisis in which an individual could move towards a greater state of integration and wholeness. In their groundbreaking book on the subject, Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis, the Grofs describe spiritual emergency as “both a crisis and an opportunity of rising to a new level of awareness.”
Intentionally constructed as a play on words, the term “emergency” indicates crisis, all the while containing within it the term “emergence”, pertaining to the process by which something becomes known or visible, implying that both—crisis and opportunity—can arise. The Grofs thus differentiate between a spiritual emergency and the more gradual, less disruptive process of spiritual emergence.
Compared with spiritual emergency, the process of spiritual emergence, sometimes referred to as ‘spiritual awakening’, consists of a slower, gentler unfoldment of psychospiritual energies that does not negatively affect an individual’s ability to function within the various domains of their life. Thus, spiritual emergence is a natural process of attuning to a more expanded state of awareness in which individuals generally feel a deeper sense of connection to themselves, others, and the world around them.
Conversely, cases of spiritual emergency usually share many characteristics with psychosis, and as such are often misunderstood and misdiagnosed. However, spiritual emergencies differ from psychosis in that they are not suggestive of long-term mental illness, and provide individuals with an opportunity to use their woundedness to go deeper into themselves and find healing.
The fact that the concept of spiritual emergency is not known and widely accepted beyond the context of transpersonal psychology is partially bound up with an age-old argument that has long permeated Western science and culture. In culture at large, spiritual and mystical-type experiences have long been ridiculed and pathologized, being considered delusional and reflective of mental illness. Dominated by materialist approaches to consciousness and mental health, Western science generally lumps spiritual crises together with psychosis, attributing their origins to biological or neurological dysfunction and treating them on the physical level. However, in the context of transpersonal psychology, spiritual experiences are considered to be real and integral to the evolutionary development of the individual.
Inherent to the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency is their holotropic model that revolves around the central tenet that we have an innate tendency to move towards wholeness, possessing within us an “inner healing intelligence.” Similar to the way the body starts its own sophisticated process of healing when we injure ourselves physically, the psyche possesses its own healing intelligence that takes place unseen within us. Just like fevers fighting off infections, spiritual crises can be understood as the psyche’s way of signalling that imbalance needs to be overcome as it moves toward a state of greater integration.
Although experiences of spiritual emergency are highly individual, they all share in the fact that the typical functioning of the ego is impaired, and the logical mind is overridden by the world of intuition. Scary and potentially traumatizing, spiritual emergencies can be interspersed with moments of fervent ecstasy in which an individual believes that they have special abilities to communicate with God or cosmic consciousness, giving way to a temporary messianic complex.
Conversely, a person might become possessed by a potent feeling of paranoia, feeling that the universe is conspiring against them, or they may feel detached from material reality, only connected to this realm through a fine, ephemeral thread. Happenings and material objects might become imbued with symbolic, other-worldly meaning. For some it means spirit possession, compulsive behaviors which lead them to forget to eat and sleep, or a soul-crushing sense of depression that makes them choose to isolate themselves from others.
Join us for our live 8-week course on everything professionals need to know about psychedelics, integration, and so much more, Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists. Next semester starts on September 23, 2021.
Spiritual Emergency Triggered By Psychedelics
Although states of spiritual crisis can come about spontaneously, they can be triggered by emotional stress, physical exertion, disease, near-death experiences, childbirth, meditative practice, and exposure to psychedelics, among other things.
Psychedelics, in particular, have the ability to trigger spiritual emergencies in that they rapidly propel a journeyer from one state of consciousness to another in a mere matter of hours. If an individual is not adequately prepared, these sudden encounters with the numinous can be incredibly destabilizing and have challenging, unintended impacts.
Furthermore, psychedelics can activate parts of the psyche, throwing us off balance by rapidly bringing forth material from the unconscious that we need to integrate. The Grofs expand on this further in their book, Stormy Search for the Self: A Guide to Personal Growth through Transformational Crisis, writing, “Occasionally, the amount of unconscious material that emerges from deep levels of the psyche can be so enormous that the person involved can have difficulty functioning in everyday reality.”
According to Kyle Buller, Co-Founder and Director of Education here at Psychedelics Today, M.S. in Clinical Mental Health, and certified Spiritual Emergence Coach, psychedelics and engaging in spiritual and contemplative practices can make individuals more prone to spiritual emergencies. “Psychedelics and plant medicines open us up to new ways of seeing the world, and this new way of being or seeing can be destabilizing for some,” he says.
Additionally, Buller explains that those with existing traumas or underlying mental health disorders are more at risk for spiritual emergency-type experiences. “I come back to Grof’s notion that psychedelics are ‘non-specific amplifiers of mental or psychic processes,’” he explains. “If someone is already dealing with a lot and difficult content is brought to the surface and amplified, they might not be able to contain it without a proper set and setting or support.”
In the context of psychedelics, spiritual crises can occur when there is an expansion of consciousness that happens without adequate containment. For that reason, most spiritual emergencies triggered by psychedelics don’t occur in the context of clinical studies, but rather through recreational use, self-exploration, and even ceremonial use. Arguably, within plant medicine ceremonies, there are clear parameters that contain the experience as it is unfolding, however, upon leaving the container of the ceremony, most individuals go back to their normal, everyday lives, and this shift can be challenging.
Research fellow at the Centre for the History of the Emotions at Queen Mary University of London, Jules Evans, detailed his experience of a psychedelic-induced spiritual emergency in his self-published, Holiday From the Self: An Accidental Ayahuasca Adventure. In Evans’ case, he went to the Peruvian Amazon to participate in an ayahuasca retreat.
Although Evans gave it careful consideration and had a positive experience at the retreat, once he began travelling back to Iquitos, he found himself feeling disconnected, and moreover disorientated. As the days passed by, an eerie and intense feeling of doubt around his sense of reality washed over him. In an article recounting his experience he writes, “When I got texts from loved ones, I thought my subconscious was constructing them. I felt profoundly alone in this fake reality.”
Evans had previously spent time studying ecstatic experiences academically, and was partially familiar with the concept of spiritual emergency, helping him to not “freak out.” However, for most of us, that isn’t the case and when spiritual crises start to unfold, not knowing what is happening can plunge us into a deep state of fear and terror.
Another reason why those who experiment with psychedelics are more prone to spiritual crises is the lack of cultural support. Buller places emphasis on the need for adequate cultural containers, suggesting that the fact that psychedelics and plant medicines are not accepted by dominant culture poses another hurdle for integrating these experiences.
“When a person has a profound experience, where do they turn or seek support? Does the cultural cosmology around them embrace these types of experiences and if not, how does that exacerbate one’s difficult experience?” Buller says.
In Western culture, we have lost the cultural frames and mythological maps that could usher us through intense experiences of psychospiritual opening, a process which we need to go through at times. Reflecting on this subject in a 2008 paper, medical anthropologist Sara Lewis, explored how Westerners are at increased risk for experiencing spiritual crises and psychological distress following ayahuasca ceremonies due to what she describes as a “lack of cultural support.”
Spiritual crises have been suggested to resemble instances of ‘shamanic illness’ as experienced by shamanic initiates in certain Indigenous cultures. Compared with those in Indigenous communities, however, Westerners lack community resources and guidance to contextualize experiences produced by psychedelic plant medicines, and often fear becoming mentally ill as a result.
Distinguishing Between Psychosis and Spiritual Emergency
The Grofs suggest in their book, Spiritual Emergency, that mainstream psychiatry and psychology make no distinction between mystical states and mental illness, tending to treat non-ordinary states with suppressive medication rather than recognizing their healing potentials.
For psychedelic practitioners and integration providers working with those experiencing psychological distress after a psychedelic experience, evaluating whether the individual is a danger to themselves and others, and determining personal or family history of mental health disorders can be incredibly helpful in understanding whether the phenomenon is a psychotic break or a spiritual crisis. An additional indicator is understanding how a given individual relates to their spirituality, ascertaining whether it brings them a sense of hope. Further, it is useful to rule out any form of neurologic or physical disorder that would impair normal mental functioning such as an infection, tumor, or uremia.
Another crucial factor is the client’s ability to understand the phenomenon as an unfolding psychological process that they can navigate internally as well as cooperatively with the mental health provider, being able to differentiate to a substantial degree between their internal experience and consensus reality.
In a 1986 paper on the subject, the Grofs caution, “It is important to emphasize that not every experience of unusual states of consciousness and intense perceptual, emotional, cognitive, and psychosomatic changes falls into the category of spiritual emergency.” Further highlighting that the concept of spiritual crisis is not intended to counter traditional psychiatry, but rather offer an alternative to those who are able to benefit from it.
Thus mental health practitioners looking to learn how to distinguish between spiritual emergency and psychosis must learn there is a fine line between the two which often makes it difficult to discern. While there is a tendency for traditional psychiatry to pathologize mystical states, the Grofs jointly warn of the dangers of “spiritualizing psychotic states”, placing emphasis on the need to use proper discernment around a given individual’s experience.
Speaking to the subject, Buller offers advice, “I would encourage a combination of open-mindedness and critical thinking. For many mental health professionals, this concept is going to push against most of our training, however, we need an open mind to explore this area and do our best to listen to the experiencer.”
In a culture where spiritual issues are not easily understood, spiritual crises can be incredibly isolating and shameful in that the person undergoing them feels that they cannot open up and share about their experience with others for fear of being labeled as “crazy.”
Reflecting on people’s reluctance to share about these types of challenges, Buller offers, “I think this highlights some distrust in the current system around these types of experiences.” He adds, “It also makes me wonder how many people may be struggling with difficult experiences and aren’t reaching out for help because of fearing what might happen if they disclose their experience to a mental health professional.”
For those undergoing a spiritual emergency, it can feel comforting to know that they are not alone in their struggle, and that many other people have been through similarly challenging experiences. It is also helpful to remember that the crisis is part of the healing process, and that it too will pass.
One resource is the Spiritual Emergence Network (SEN), founded by Christina Grof in 1980, or its global sister project, the International Spiritual Emergence Network (ISEN) which provides practical advice for navigating spiritual emergency as well as offering a specialized mental health referral and support service for those seeking help. Additionally, for those merely looking to learn more about the subject, Psychedelics Today offers a free webinar called, “Spiritual Emergence or Psychosis,” which explores some of the research around psychosis and spiritual emergence.
When experiencing a spiritual emergency as a result of psychedelic use, it is important to factor in set, setting, and integration, just as one would factor those components into an intentional psychedelic trip in the first place. In terms of ‘setting,’ the person experiencing the spiritual crisis should seek out a non-judgemental space in which they feel safe and supported—whether that be with a mental health practitioner or in the hands of family and friends.
Beyond the environment, ‘set’ refers to our mindset and the way we frame the experience. Because there is a conceivable amount of stigma surrounding spirituality, cultivating one’s mindset means understanding that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with the person experiencing a spiritual emergency, and that the difficulty may very well be a crucial stepping stone on their personal path to healing.
Lastly, meaning-making in the context of psychedelic integration is of paramount importance as it allows individuals to take the crucial step of transforming negative experiences into something of value, which could take anywhere from a couple of months to the rest of their lives.
When working with someone experiencing a spiritual emergency, it is important to take a destigmatizing and non-pathologizing approach. Recognizing this, Stanley Krippner, psychologist and parapsychologist, wrote in a 2012 paper, “The naming process is one of the most important components of healing.” As such, mental health practitioners working with those experiencing psychological distress after a psychedelic experience need to be mindful in how they frame what is happening.
Spiritual Emergency Beyond the Scope of Transpersonal Psychology
While the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency was undoubtedly ahead of its time, there is still room for growth and maturation, and some suggest it may be helpful to use different terminology around the concept.
David Lukoff, professor of psychology at Sofia University and licensed psychologist specializing in the treatment of religious and spiritual crises, was influenced by the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency early on in his career, and has partially used the concept to inform his work in co-authoring new diagnostic category of “Religious or Spiritual Problem” included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) 4 and DSM-5.
Lukoff suggests that although the term spiritual emergency, which is well-known in transpersonal psychology, is not used or necessarily accepted in mainstream circles, spiritual and religious issues are now becoming understood through different terminology.
“I think Stan and Christina nailed the concept, but as soon as you use the term ‘emergency’ in the healthcare field, it implies the worst case scenario in which a person might need hospitalization,” Lukoff tells Psychedelics Today. “The more neutral term ‘problem’ is now used within psychiatry as a result of the DSM category that I helped author, and the term ‘struggle’ is now used within psychology.”
Further, Lukoff emphasizes that he has seen a major shift, even though it is still a minority, in psychology and psychiatry programs on the coverage of religion and spirituality. “I know that the transpersonal world doesn’t always pick up on this, but there is a real renaissance within the healthcare field in which more attention is being heeded to religious and spiritual strengths as well as problems and struggles,” he says.
“There are definitely times when spiritual issues can become crises or conflicts, however, it is also true that for the majority of people their religion and their spirituality are sources of strength, more often associated with positive coping,” shares Lukoff.
In his early 20s, Lukoff experienced his own LSD-induced spiritual crisis in which he believed that he was a reincarnation of Buddha and Jesus, manifested in his present form to unite the peoples of the world. In part, Lukoff attributes his career trajectory as a clinical psychologist and professor of psychology to the psychosis-like transformational crisis he experienced early on.
Reflecting on his own psychedelic-induced spiritual crisis, Lukoff offers the view that careful preparation goes a long way in being able to mitigate the potential negative effects of psychedelics. Even so, it is important not to trivialize or reduce psychedelic-induced spiritual crises to conjectures about “bad trips.” Spiritual crises need not merely be the product of challenging psychedelic experiences as they can be similarly triggered by potent positive experiences.
Spiritual Crisis and The Future of Psychedelic Healing
Psychedelic healing is not linear. It is not as simple as popping a pill and being miraculously cured. Rather, it is a messy process which sometimes involves psychospiritual distress that is integral to the healing process. As medical and mainstream interest in psychedelic substances continues to expand, and more and more people have these kinds of experiences, it is imperative that psychedelic practitioners develop literacy around the concept of spiritual crisis, as well as develop frameworks to help individuals contextualize their challenging experiences.
With increased awareness and use of psychedelics, are practitioners ready to deal with some of the transpersonal experiences that clients will bring to them? Buller emphasizes the need for diverse and nuanced perspectives as we move forward into the psychedelic renaissance.
“While I appreciate the trauma focus and narrative in psychedelic research, I worry that we might end up reducing everything down to psychological terminology, discrediting a person’s experience,” he shares. “What happens when someone has an entity encounter in a psychedelic experience? Do we just reduce that experience down to a possible traumatic event in someone’s life or write it off as unreal because we have a mechanistic understanding of what that experience is?”
Moving towards the future, it is important to remain open-minded, and take holistic approaches that interweave multiple narrative frameworks, including that of transpersonal psychology, through which people can understand and make meaning of their experiences, including the potential for spiritual emergencies and their transformational—yet difficult—outcomes.
In this episode, Kyle interviews psychiatrist, co-founder/CEO of Brooklyn Minds, and co-host of the Clubhouse show, New Frontiers: Carlene MacMillan, M.D.
MacMillan talks about the importance of systems: how there is a ton of work between FDA approval and actually getting drugs into the hands of the people who need them, and how we too often talk about the life-changing effects of psychedelics but not the importance of insurance companies being able to cover them (and having the infrastructure in place to handle it all). She talks about how many clinicians don’t want to offer ketamine because of costs but will offer Spravato due to insurance covering it, and how a colder, more clinical model of healthcare is exactly what many people are looking for.
And she discusses a lot more: How medicine needs to move from the procedure-based, fee-for-service model toward value-based care, why self-insured employers can be more flexible around mental health care, how the intentions of good people at insurance companies are halted by bureaucracy, the notion of nonprofits all being good (and for-profits all being bad), why public benefit companies are better for the future, why she’s worried we might see what we saw in medical cannabis again, and how we need to apply the same multidisciplinary approach we take in medicine toward our ideal vision of legal psychedelic care.
Notable Quotes
“Either it does nothing like it’s a bust, or it’s dramatic. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of: ‘Well, maybe it worked, I’m not sure.’ It’s really: ‘No, like, wow. I feel completely different. That suicidal voice in my head is just gone now.’ It’s just remarkable when it works.”
“I hear more about the interesting science and trials, and I hear stuff about accessibility in terms of scholarships and nonprofits and grants and things like that, and I think that’s all very important. But I think if we really want this to be mainstream and widely part of the mental health toolkit, we need to also really focus in on this insurance piece.”
“I’m very much for decriminalization and regulation. I think if you look at the dangers of most of these drugs compared to alcohol, they are far safer than alcohol. And I don’t think that they should be for children and I think they should be regulated and in moderation, but I don’t find a criminal approach is at all productive. It doesn’t fit with how we think about any of this.”
“People can’t ignore that system part of the equation and we really do need to think about how payment models and clinic models are going to be ready. I think of it like: people are building the planes and we need to build the runways. And so I would encourage people to get in touch to start to build those runways and airports so that we’re ready. Because the planes are coming.”
Carlene MacMillan, M.D. is the co-founder/CEO of Brooklyn Minds. She is a Harvard-trained adult and child psychiatrist who pioneers team-based and tech-enabled mental health care that helps individuals with complex psychiatric concerns live meaningful lives. She collaborates with stakeholders to build novel value-based (as opposed to volume-based) care models. Dr.MacMillan is also known for her role as the co-host of New Frontiers, an award-winning show on Clubhouse where mental health experts weigh in on aspects of our culture. She is an internationally recognized leader in Mentalization Based Treatment, collaborating with leaders at the Anna Freud National Centre for Children and Families. She is on the Clinical Advisory board of Osmind and a member of the Ketamine Taskforce for Access to Safe Care and Insurance Coverage. She is on the Clinical TMS Society Insurance Committee and is the co-Chair of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Consumer Issues Committee.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down for a discussion spanning spiritual emergence, the concept of the transpersonal, and a simple but huge question: What is healing?
They dissect the concept of healing and how it relates to psychedelics and inner work: Is the psychedelic experience always healing? What needs to be done to turn traumatic experiences into catalysts? Is it fair to relate the psychedelic experience and post-experience integration work to surgery and the body healing on its own? Can we create a realistic and affordable model for retreat centers with built-in, long-term, communal support systems? How do we know when to trust the radical insights psychedelics may steer us toward? And how do we prepare for the changes in relationships they may create as well?
And they discuss plenty more as it relates to these topics: The difference between spiritual emergence and spiritual emergency, Ben Sessa’s idea of MDMA as an antibiotic for psychiatry, Ram Dass’ idea of not starting down a spiritual journey unless one intends on finishing it, the work of Ken Wilber, Erik Davis and the mysticism in Grateful Dead lyrics, the challenge of earthly expectations, consensus and compromise, decadent mysticism, and the concept of a spiritual quest itself as healing.
Notable Quotes
“Maybe that’s a good way of looking at it: You’re having a massive intervention and then you heal afterwards. My tendons were so thrashed before a lot of my surgeries that I needed the surgery and then I needed to heal. The surgery wasn’t the thing that triggered the healing, but it set up the initial conditions from which I could then heal.” -Joe “Is there something about a spiritual quest that heals? I think, on a somewhat occasional basis, yes. …I think there’s something there. Intentionality and deep focus and reverence in the mystical experience; as we’ve seen at the Hopkins trials: the higher the mystical experience on the MEQ, the more healing. So there seems to be some sort of correlation there.” -Joe
“It’s normal, I think, to maybe not always feel healed even though a lot of the mainstream articles are kind of portraying it as that. And I think that’s the danger around not being honest about our own experiences and our own process, [and just] putting out the highlights of the experience [instead of] really just trying to be real and say there’s some challenging stuff that comes up. …People really just want to highlight the peaks. But there’s a lot of juice in the valleys.” -Kyle “A friend I was talking about earlier talked about all these other changes that happened in clinical trials and found a researcher attached to a major university that said, ‘Well, you know, I have seen some pretty dramatic relationship changes (outside of healing) in these folks that have gone through the trial.’ …What does that mean? And how do we prep people for that? Like, are you going to be able to stay with your wife after you’ve seen God two or three times in session?” -Joe
Psychedelic VR—or virtual reality claiming to give users a psychedelic trip—is here, but is there any truth to the claims? And theoretically, how would it work?
A few years ago I took five grams of psilocybin mushrooms and went to the E3 video game expo in Los Angeles only to be lost in a world of virtual reality. It’s not something I would suggest for everyone, unless you want to spend the rest of the day wondering if cosplayers are just regular people from the future.
There’s an untethered prism of technological potential that has been emerging from VR in the past decade. However, you’re reading this because you want to know if a person can have a psychedelic trip while in VR. The short answer is ‘no,’ and any VR company that makes these claims is not being truthful. The long answer is—definitely not right now, but the more neuroscience and technology advances, the closer we will come to having a psychedelic trip exclusively in virtual reality. I’ll explain one of those ways, but first how did we get this far with virtual reality?
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A Brief Rundown on the History of VR
Let’s get the definitions straight. Virtual Reality (VR) is the complete immersion within an artificial world usually through a headset. Augmented Reality (AR) is the addition of virtual components to reality, like an email notification that appears in your vision, usually through glasses. Mixed Reality (MR) is the combination of VR and AR that brings together the digital and real world. An example would be a real-world object that is QR-coded so a person can see a virtual image emerging from the object when wearing mixed-reality glasses. Microsoft HoloLens is pioneering this technology. Finally, there’s Extended Reality (XR) that’s a blanket term that combines VR, AR, and MR.
When was Extended Reality invented? The history is debatable—was it the Ancient Greeks that constructed theaters and used the science of acoustics to mimic reality on stage, or should we go back to cave dwellers and their ‘subterranean cyberspaces’ they crafted filled with imagery that replicated the outside world? Let’s skip a few centuries, past Sir Charles Wheatstone’s 19th century stereoscope and Ivan Sutherland’s ‘Sword of Damocles’ machine of the 1960s, and go straight to Thomas Furness’ VCASS (that is, Visually Coupled Airborne Systems Simulator) built in 1982. It was astronomically expensive, and the technology alone filled up several rooms with computers. However, it was the first VR headset to fully immerse the user in an interactive artificially-manufactured world.
Aside from a few Hollywood films like “Lawnmower Man” and “Johnny Mnemonic” in the early ‘90s, VR didn’t really explode into mainstream culture like it was intended to. By 1999, the VR industry was deceased. Not like it laughed itself to death, but the world laughed the technology out of existence. It would take another decade and a 17-year-old named Palmer Luckey to invent the Oculus Rift, the current standard for virtual reality. Now, every VR headset available on the market is built on Luckey’s binocular LCD innovation.
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The Neuroscience of Psychedelic VR
You’re a virtual reality history buff now, so let’s talk about the capabilities of the technology and why all claims that it can induce a psychedelic trip are misleading and erroneous—if not outright lies.
Currently, the only way we know a psychedelic trip can happen is through direct interaction with 5-HT2A neural receptors. When a person ingests psychedelics, those substances sit in these receptors. The molecular neuroscience of this process is largely unknown, and psychedelics can also induce other neurological changes like thalamic afferents and shifting cerebral blood flow between cortical regions. We’re still trying to understand why this happens, but the one consistent occurrence is the excitement of the 5-HT2A receptors in the brain.
That should be the end of the story, but you guys want to dive deeper in the rabbit hole—so let’s do it.
I spoke with neuropharmacologist and founder of Psychedelic Support, Dr. Alli Feduccia, about the possibility of inducing a psychedelic trip exclusively through VR—without the interaction of 5-HT2A receptors. She said while it’s highly unlikely, it’s theoretically possible through what’s called ‘neural oscillations.’
Neuroscience discovered some neurons and even entire regions can be activated through neural oscillations, which is the synchronization of activity in certain regions of the brain. For example, when a person speaks you understand them better when you look at their face to receive visual information (happiness, sadness, etc.), which aids the auditory information (what they’re actually saying) that’s being processed in your brain. Those two sensory inputs (auditory speech and visual facial cues) are coupled as a neural oscillation.
It’s been proposed that oscillations also reflect changes in the excitement of neurons from these sensory inputs. Excitement from these neural oscillations mostly show dendritic synaptic activity in the brain—the place where serotonin receptors reside. The synaptic activity seen through this neural oscillation is a ‘ping-pong’ effect bouncing between pyramidal cells (the brain cells that process serotonin) and inhibitory interneurons (neurons that assist the activity of pyramidal cells). Theoretically if any extended reality device can create a collection of sensory inputs (visual, auditory) and vestibular inputs (balance, direction) to create a ‘transient evoked’ (a response to discrete stimuli) or a ‘steady-state evoked’ (response to periodic rhythmic stimuli) neural oscillation that would be strong and complex enough to excite certain brain regions responsible for psychedelic trips like the medial prefrontal cortex—then we would be able to see technology like VR induce a psychedelic trip.
All of this sounds like it’s possible only because I explained it to be understood. In reality, neural oscillations from an exogenous stimuli like VR that would activate a cortical region like the prefrontal cortex to excite the 5-HT2A receptors and induce a trip is a scientific and technological process that hasn’t been invented yet. In fact, we aren’t close to having even the fundamental understanding of these systems to begin the research and development of technology that would be capable of doing this. It would be like creating the Deathstar and all the technology inside entirely from cardboard. Oh, that’s happened already? Well I take that back.
When I spoke with @Trippy, the largest psychedelic community in the world (1.7 million followers and counting), about the potential of creating a psychedelic trip through technology, the curator said,“It’s impossible to deliver or duplicate an authentic psychedelic experience utilizing only technology. Humanity finds a sense of comfort in believing we can quantify or recreate all things. We have an unending desire to control things outside our understanding.”
The long and short of it is, there are a lot of VR companies out there that want you to believe they have invented a way to have a psychedelic trip through digital means. This could be the result of overzealous writers dropping extraordinary headlines and less about the CEOs of the VR companies that are represented. Everyone wants a good story, especially when you’re in the market of garnering investor interest for a capital raise.
A company that was brought to my attention is the Los Angeles-based VR company TRIPP (not to be confused with @trippy). Judging by the name one would easily believe the company is rooted in the psychedelic experience. Even their site suggests that for only $19.99 you can “start TRIPPing”. When I reached out to the company with a few questions (the first being, “Why do you think TRIPP works?”) the PR department sent me this:
“TRIPP does not elicit a psychedelic experience, nor does it act as/mimic a serotonergic agonist. TRIPP is simply a digital tool to help you manage stress and your emotional well-being. We don’t make claims on therapeutic efficacy.”
Certainly not the response many were hoping for—considering in June 2021, CEO of TRIPP Nanea Reeves told TechCrunch: “Many people that will never feel comfortable taking a psychedelic, this is a low-friction alternative that can deliver some of that experience in a more benign way.”
We’re not picking on TRIPP, there are far more dubious claims from individuals that suggest they have the technology to put the brain in altered states. Right around the VR craze in the mid ‘90s, Stanley Koren came out with the ‘God Helmet,’ a device that claims it can give the wearer a feeling of otherness, similar to the subjective effects of DMT and ayahuasca.
Through oscillations of low magnetic fields, the God Helmet allegedly disrupts the communication between the left and right brain lobes, which gives a person the perception of another ‘godly’ presence. There’s only one problem: No one has fully been able to replicate Stanley Koren’s claims with their own God Helmet study.
None of this is meant to degrade VR’s therapeutic use, which has been proven in clinical studies. For instance, Hunter G. Hoffman’s 2004 ‘Snowworld VR’ study showed patients can withstand pain longer in a tranquil virtual environment, the first evidence in history that VR changes brain activity during painful procedures.
VR is not an alternative that can deliver a psychedelic experience. If there’s one thing from this article to take away, it’s that. In the future, however, this statement has the possibility of turning around, and judging by the advancements in neuroscience along with an array of psychedelic research being unraveled, it will most likely be untrue. But for now, we’re still a long way to go before VR will give you a psychedelic trip.
In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Tiago Reis Marques: senior fellow at Imperial College, lecturer at the Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College London, psychiatrist at the Maudsley Hospital, and CEO of Pasithea; a biotech company developing new drugs for the treatment of psychiatric and neurological disorders.
Although Pasithea is creating new drugs, Marques talks a lot about the importance of repurposing existing ones. Due to the insane complexity of the human brain and the myriad of possible problems one can experience; until we have new drugs to address everything, we need to use what we have. And he discusses how this repurposing process comes about: how companies have to run big, expensive trials to prove efficacy and do so while they still have the patent (because once they lose the patent, there’s no financial incentive to continue).
And as Pasithea is also offering at-home ketamine infusions (first in New York and California, but soon, all across the US), he talks a lot about ketamine: How it covers a wide range of disorders, the pros and cons of intramuscular ketamine and IV infusions, drug interactions, its similarities with other psychedelics, and the (maybe surprising) lack of side effects.
He also discusses how making a pharmacoeconomic analysis can show how a few expensive ketamine infusions could create incredible savings, why new drug development is a very high-risk, high-reward industry, what “responded” means in clinical trials, how Covid-related spikes in PTSD relate to the pandemic timeline, the importance of talking about mental health more, and what we can do with historical and outdated (but important) data.
Notable Quotes
“What you’ve seen in this revolution that is happening in psychiatry is [this] renaissance of substances that we consider …as bad [or] toxic and we’re actually using them again. We have laughing gas for treatment-resistant depression, we have MDMA for PTSD, you have ketamine for treatment-resistant depression, PTSD. …We’ve been rediscovering these drugs that we thought were lost [to] the dark side and we’re using them again.”
“If you look across the spectrum, the majority of disorders are rising in the field of psychiatry and that’s due to environmental conditions [and] now Covid. We see an exponential rise in psychiatric diagnosis and we see that a large majority of patients; either they do not receive the treatment (in this case, drug treatment, pharmacological treatment) or if they receive it, they experience side-effects, or they don’t like [it], or these treatments don’t show efficacy. So we need to create new drugs.”
“There’s always a problem with ketamine. Some of these patients end up relapsing after a period of approximately one month. But if you meet someone who has experienced PTSD symptoms, even one month of relief of symptoms is tremendously helpful. They make them live again. So, we’ll see a space for ketamine in the treatment of PTSD, for sure. Let’s hope the medical community embraces this.” “There’s people out there in the past that have tried things and there’s reports and so on, that any researcher that is reading them should read them in a way that’s at least [to] increase their curiosity for why, 50 years ago, someone tried this and experienced this. That’s a bit how psychedelics were rediscovered, because there were all these trials in the seventies that were completely forgotten until someone read them again and saw that they’d been used and they show efficacy. …So maybe a lot of research is just redoing it again using new methods, new drugs, new delivery ways (using brain imaging as a biomarker or response) and trying to improve our knowledge, just trying to not only replicate it but also adding something.”
Tiago Reis Marques is a senior fellow at Imperial College, a lecturer at the Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College London and a psychiatrist at the prestigious Maudsley Hospital. The Maudsley Hospital and the Institute of Psychiatry constitute the largest psychiatry center in Europe and ranks among the 3 best in the world. During his research career, he has received numerous prestigious awards, including the Young Investigator Award from the Brain and Behavior Research Foundation, the Research Award from the Royal Society of Medicine’s psychiatry section and the Young Investigator Award of the International Congress on Schizophrenia Research. He is also a co-funder and CEO of Pasithea, a biotech company developing new drugs for the treatment of psychiatric and neurological disorders.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle reflect back, revisit some drama, and talk about the future.
They first discuss how they started doing these Solidarity Friday episodes at the beginning of lockdowns and the peak of the Black Lives Matter movement, and how they felt that putting out more personal material in a time of upheaval and unprecedented uncertainty was the best contribution they could make.
Then they discuss the Instagram comments from Decriminalize Nature over the last few weeks and wonder why social justice movements often include such non-productive behavior (and why DN’s leaders maybe even encourage it). And they look at possession limits from the “decriminalization with possession limits is an oxymoron” perspective, imagine what a utopian, communal society that grew and provided mushrooms for each other would look like, and analyze why Scott Wiener seems to have willingly paused the movement on SB-519 until next year.
And they talk about a lot more: the lesser-known 9/20 holiday and our upcoming huge giveaway (stay tuned), the concept of naturalistic fallacy and the problem of determining what is natural, how there are great aspects to religion but people are often turned off by the religious parts, the scalability of drugs and its effect on the environment, Robert Anton Wilson’s idea of reality tunnels, the importance of taking a multi-context approach to psychedelics, and Rick Doblin’s recent op-ed about how not enough doctors are prepared for the psychedelic wave we’re currently being swept up in (which we’ve been saying since we created our Navigating Psychedelics course to address that very need- thanks for the support, Rick!).
Notable Quotes
“I get DN’s point here. I don’t want government getting in the way of my religion. But when I say I don’t want government getting in the way of me healing, that’s a different thing. …It’s not always the case that religion heals. I spent a lot of time and have a lot of family in the Catholic church. They don’t look healed at all.” -Joe
“There’s a lot of complexity here, and having simple answers is nice and probably comforting, but I don’t see them. I don’t see them as abounding. So, we need to come up with: What are our values, why are we doing this stuff, and what do we want to see created? …I’d like to see a post-prohibition future: No more drug war, people are safe, they’re educated on how to use all of these things, there’s real deal experts with centers globally where you can access all this stuff. I can be legal going to a Phish show, other folks can be legal going to Wu-Tang Clan shows, smoking tons of weed in front of the stage, sharing blunts with Method Man.” -Joe
“Legalize being human. People want to alter their consciousness. This is a human trait: Anything from spinning in circles to boozing to smoking cigarettes to whatever- we want to alter our consciousness, and it seems universal.” -Joe
“I think about all those people that put stuff out- the ideas. That’s the stuff that kept me going through some of those dark periods or this or that, just hearing Terence talk about things, just these folks that have been around for a while just spouting their visions for the future and how psychedelics could play a role in it. Some days where I was just deep in existential dread from what I was going through, those things kept me alive, just hearing these people’s visions and ideas of the future of how this could radically shift humanity. I’m like, ‘Whoa. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.’” -Kyle
Everything you need to know about Carl Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious and how it can help us process, navigate and guide psychedelic journeys.
This is part of our column ‘Psychedelics in Depth‘ which defines and explains depth psychology topics in the context of psychedelics.
A boundless sea rises to engulf the land. A solitary ship floats delicately on its churning surface. On the boat there are two figures, rapidly bailing out water from the deck, while a pair of animals look nervously over the edge. Out of the water bursts forth a massive tree, lifting up the boat in one of its thousand limbs, rescuing the people and the animals from the murky abyss below. The moon blocks out the sun, an eagle soars across the sky, and all falls into darkness…
Dream, psychedelic vision, or ancient myth? Can you tell the difference?
If you answered no, that’s because this outlandish sequence of events cannot possibly be based in objective reality, and therefore must be subject to interpretation. Who’s to say what any of it means—for now it remains a tapestry of evocative images containing infinite avenues where we might create meaning.Perhaps only the dreamer, journeyer, or culture of origin is truly capable of this, since an image’s deeper meaning can only become clear when its context is provided.
What is clear, however, is that the images which emerge in dreams, psychedelic states, and myths share themes in common, which is a foundational principle of depth psychology.
While the patterns or images themselves might be considered ‘archetypes,’ the question of where they come from is our main concern in this article.
Did that story above seem somehow familiar? Did it remind you of other stories you’ve heard before, once upon a time? Jung and other depth psychologists would likely say that they emerged out of the ‘collective unconscious,’a foundational concept in depth psychology.
The idea of the collective unconscious is perhaps one of the most unique and enduring concepts of Jungian and depth psychology. The very question of its existence caused the never-healed split between Freud and Jung, which marked one of the most significant moments in the history of psychology.
To embrace the reality of this mysterious, timeless realm is to embrace the notion that there are indeed regions of consciousness that we cannot, and will not, understand by our usual ways of knowing.
In this regard, the collective unconscious opens the way to the unknown, which psychedelics can, gracefully or otherwise, escort us into closer communion with. It could even be said that modern Western culture’s long standing fear and stigmatization of plant medicine, psychedelics and altered states of consciousness is an intense fear of the unknown projected onto the plant, pill or powder in question.
Psychedelics can ferry us across the river into the storehouse of repressed human experiences that modern culture has sought to obscure, dilute, or completely ignore. This can look like vivid encounters with death, powerful reminders of humility or sobering wake-up calls that break us out of whatever psychological trance state we all seem to occasionally fall into.
Despite all of our technology and scientific discoveries, to this day the collective unconscious remains as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
What Is the Collective Unconscious?
According to Jung in his Collected Works, Volume 8, the terrain of the collective unconscious “contains the whole spiritual heritage of mankind’s evolution, born anew in the brain structure of every individual,” and can seem “something like an unceasing stream or perhaps ocean of images and figures which drift into consciousness in our dreams or in abnormal states of mind.”
In other words, the collective unconscious is a universal aspect of the human experience—something akin to a genetic heritage of the psyche, composed of primordial images and which express themselves symbolically through dreams and myths across time and space.
In his later writings, Jung used the term‘objective psyche’to refer to the collective unconscious because of a refinement in his thinking and a desire to steer his work away from focusing on overtly social phenomena like collective projection or groupthink. While this was a facet of Jung’s work, the true scope of the collective unconscious far surpasses this domain.
Additionally, there exists the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, the difference of which is important to understand and explore.
The personal unconscious contains all of the unique aspects of your personality and psyche which have been repressed, such as difficult memories, traumas, and behaviors you’re not even aware of. The personal shadow, according to Jung, is composed of all the aspects of your personality which fail to neatly conform to your ego’s idea of who you are, which is called your ‘persona’. Unless these shadow aspects are consciously faced and integrated (often called ‘shadow work’), they inevitably tend to be projected outward. But more on that another time.
The collective unconscious is a different beast entirely, and refers to regions of the psyche far beyond the personal repressed material described above. Nearly all of Jung’s most evocative concepts, such as complexes, archetypes, anima/animus, and shadow arise from or are connected to the collective unconscious. By its very nature, the collective unconscious is unknowable and imperceivable to us by our usual methods of perception.
Over the course of his life and work, Jung postulated different ideas as to what this infinite realm might be and what its purpose could be for humanity. His work contained within The Red Book expresses his personal journey of delving into his own uncharted depths through cryptic prose and evocative, semi-religious artwork.
What is clear is that the collective unconscious remains an elusive concept, and that any discussion of it requires a healthy dose of mystery and wonder. Because it is ineffable and eludes full definition, the collective unconscious remains something beyond our ability to fully control, manipulate, and know—actions which, from a depth perspective, all emerge from the ego. And perhaps it should remain so.
“Psychedelic substances don’t cause specific psychological effects. Although they increase energy levels that activate psychological processes, which allows one to consciously experience otherwise unconscious content, they don’t give rise to specific experiences or content. The content that arises from the unconscious during a psychedelic session, like the content that arises in a dream during sleep, is what is available in the unconscious at the time. What emerges can naturally vary, then from session to session for each person, and can certainly vary from person to person.”
Psychedelics cause a “lowering of the threshold of consciousness,” according to Jung, meaning that they bring one into closer contact with the unconscious. Another way of looking at it is that unconscious material bubbles up to the surface during altered states of consciousness, leading to the vast array of reactions that psychedelics are known to evoke. From this perspective, the unconscious material rising to the surface is emerging both from the personal and the collective unconscious.
The ego has a hard time believing that anything could be beyond its realm of knowledge and control. Experiences of fear, which can often infuse the onset or peak of psychedelic experiences, can be seen as the ego’s response to losing its grip on psychic control. As we plunge ever more deeply into the waters of the unconscious, fear is the ego’s alarm system, signaling that it’s well-maintained boat appears to be going down. Yet this descent, as we know from some of the world’s oldests myths and ceremonial traditions, is where real transformation begins, and as any psychedelic guide worth their salt will tell you, the best course of action at this point is to surrender, breathe, and go within.
What actually happens within the psyche while immersed in a powerful psychedelic experience can be interpreted from a variety of perspectives, as decades of psychedelic literature and multidisciplinary studies demonstrate. But like most great mysteries, psychedelics create more questions than they can possibly answer.
From a depth perspective, however, one could say that psychedelics catalyze the emergence of previously repressed psychic material which arises from both the personal and the collective unconscious —a sentiment expressed by many before. Stanislav Grof deemed psychedelics ‘abreactives,’ meaning that they bring to consciousness whatever material which has the most emotional charge.
Because psychedelics can open one’s psyche to experience aspects of the collective unconscious, various archetypes, images, complexes, and energies can be personally experienced, leading to profound moments of catharsis, healing, insight, and what Jung called, ‘numinosity’: overwhelming feelings that burst forth when one is confronted with the power of transpersonal images, archetypes, and experiences. In other words, a full-blown mystical experience.
The implications of understanding the psychedelic experience through a depth psychological lens cannot be overstated, and helps us better understand what Grof meant in his famous axiom: “Psychedelics are to the study of the mind what the telescope is for astronomy and the microscope is for biology.”
The Collective Unconscious and Psychedelics For Psychedelic Facilitators
If you are a psychedelic therapist or facilitator seeking to integrate a depth psychological approach into your practice, it is important to never overlook the significance of the unconscious and the critical role that it plays in psychedelic work. This means expecting the unexpected, listening for the deeper, unconscious threads in a client’s process, and always approaching this work from a place of humility and caution. One could say that the essential function of psychedelic therapy, from the beginning of preparation, through the dosing session, to post-trip integration sessions, is essentially one long process of integrating material from the personal and the collective unconscious.
Depth psychology will inevitably require you to learn to speak two languages at once, as you keep one foot grounded in the world of ego consciousness, persona, and outer objective facts, while maintaining another firmly rooted in the world of symbol, metaphor, myth, and subjectivity. Becoming literate in this dream language takes time, practice, and a dedication to your own inner work as well.
Join us for our live 8-week course on everything professionals need to know about psychedelics, integration, and so much more, Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists. Next semester starts on September 23, 2021.
It’s important to remember this challenging stance requires letting go of dogmatic perspectives, beliefs and certainties, as well as cultivating a certain level of humility and openness. Never forget that each time your client is venturing into psychedelic space, they are venturing into the unknown. The role of the guide or psychedelic therapist is to be a light along the way, to clear the path as much as possible, and to point the journeyer in the right direction as they bravely step into their own star-lit darkness.
The enduring message of depth psychology, however, is that those stars, and that darkness, are not yours alone. The inner world is not an empty void of nothing, but a fertile space utterly saturated with meaning, the comprehension of which can take a lifetime. The collective unconscious belongs to the collective heritage of humanity, is passed down to us in myth over countless millennia, and is remembered in our dreams and visions.
Perhaps this is what Joseph Campbell meant when he famously said, “And where you had thought to be alone, you shall be with all the world.”
About the Author
Simon Yugler is a depth and psychedelic integration therapist based in Portland, OR with a masters (MA) in depth counseling psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. Weaving Jungian psychology, Internal Family Systems therapy, and mythology, Simon also draws on his diverse experiences learning from indigenous cultures around the world, including the Shipibo ayahuasca tradition. He has a background in experiential education, and has led immersive international journeys for young adults across 10 countries. He is passionate about initiation, men’s work, indigenous rights, decolonization, and helping his clients explore the liminal wilds of the soul. Find out more on his website and on Instagram , Twitter (@depth_medicine) or Facebook.
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
In this episode, Michelle and Kyle interview Ph.D. candidate and return guest, Benjamin Mudge.
You may remember Benjamin Mudge from Solidarity Fridays episode 59, where he talked about the controversial topic of bipolar people taking psychedelics: something he knows a lot about as someone who has been managing his own bipolar disorder with ayahuasca for 12 years (to the point where he now considers himself “post-bipolar”).
In this “Part 2” episode, he discusses what his options are as a Ph.D. candidate who is certain he’s figured out a way to help save countless lives but doesn’t have a ton of expendable money, a massive team behind him, or a clearly defined path: What are the requirements necessary for creating a protocol for bipolar people? How can you prove efficacy and appease ethics departments the fastest? How do you actually begin a research study?
And he talks about a lot more surrounding bipolar disorder and ayahuasca: why people with bipolar shouldn’t have other reactionary substances with ayahuasca, why THC can amplify brain destabilization, the work of Dr. Leanna Standish and Dr. Victoria Hale, how clinical methods too often strip away spirituality in favor of reductionism and results, how “micro ceremonies” have helped save his life, the idea of “pharmahuasca” and maintenance medications, the importance of sacred reciprocity, and why the best path toward affordable access may be a combination of the efforts of nonprofits and for-profits.
Notable Quotes
“All I can say in truth is it’s a theory, but I honestly believe that I’ve worked out something that the community as a whole does not get yet, and that’s about how the other ingredients (harmaline and tetrahydroharmine) play a crucial role in the brew. And I’m aware that that’s a very arrogant thing for a guy without a PhD …to talk about, but this is what I believe I’ve figured out.”
“Every psychiatrist says to every bipolar person: ‘You need to take pills for the rest of your life.’ And actually, I agree with them. But I’m saying these could be freeze-dried ayahuasca or it could be pharmahuasca pills. It doesn’t have to be Seroquel. It doesn’t have to be something that numbs your creativity and your spirituality and your libido.”
“In a lot of ways, I would prefer to work with someone who’s going to make millions of dollars out of this if it’s going to get the medicine to my people quicker than working with [a] University or working with a not-for-profit like MAPS, who are going to take 20 years to do it.”
“This whole concept of pharmahuasca is really, really controversial. And quite frankly, it is, effectively, biopiracy in the sense of: it is taking an Indigenous, traditional medicine, turning it into a pill, and selling it in the Western market. There is a lot inherently wrong with that unless a huge amount of the profits from that goes back to the Amazon.”
Benjamin Mudge has a background in music, art and political activism, and is now a PhD candidate in the Psychiatry Department at Flinders University, as well as Director of Bipolar Disorder CIC. He taught himself the science of bipolar disorder, while working at Neuroscience laboratories and GlaxoSmithKline, to be able to manage his own personal experience of manic depression. After psychiatrists prescribed him 17 different pharmaceuticals (all of which were problematic), he gave up on pharmaceutical psychiatry and decided to find his own solution to living with manic depression. He has been managing his bipolar disorder with ayahuasca for 14 years – without any need of pharmaceuticals – and was awarded a PhD scholarship to research whether his personal protocol could assist other bipolar people. His future vision is to make ayahuasca ceremonies available to bipolar people as an alternative treatment to pharmaceutical drugs.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle do something a little different.
If you’re a regular listener of the podcast, you probably know a few things about the team by now: they try to feature lesser-known voices in the space, they believe there is no one-size-fits-all model for psychedelic-assisted therapy, and they’re open to multiple different possible pathways towards access to psychedelics. And while they recognize the dangers of over-medicalization as well as the corruption and massive profits seen so often in commercialization and big pharma, they also recognize that many lives have been saved as a result.
We were all pumped to have someone on the podcast from such a well-known and pioneering group as MAPS to break down SB-519 from an insider’s perspective and offer explanations for actions that may have seemed suspect (PTSF73, with Ismail L. Ali from MAPS). We thought it was pretty in line with what listeners have come to expect from the podcast. So imagine our surprise when what we thought was a harmless Instagram post promoting the episode was met with a bombardment of comments from Decriminalize Nature and their supporters, most of which were saying that we weren’t giving a voice to DN, with some even saying we were somehow in cahoots with MAPS and being paid to push a false narrative.
Rather than reply to every comment or feel bullied into immediately inviting representatives from Decriminalize Nature onto the podcast, Joe and Kyle decided to instead respond here in this episode. Enjoy!
Notable Quotes
“It seems to me to be an immature understanding of how politics in America works. It seems like these would be the people taking pitchforks and guns to the statehouse to do a revolution, but instead, they’re doing Instagram comments. And I get it- it’s probably not a good idea to do violence. But this is the vibe I’m getting: They’re really, really angry, they want total revolution. Do you get total revolution through Instagram activism? Probably not.” -Joe
“I’m more philosophically aligned with Carl Hart, which is calling out Decriminalize Nature as doing mental gymnastics to support their drugs of choice. And I want to see Black men and women out of prison. I want to see people of color no longer victims of the drug war. …I also see that we want people to be healed. Psychedelics can help people improve their lives and get better relationships (certainly has helped me). So what’s the way to do that? Is it total anarchy? Is it like, ‘Lets usurp the medical system’? It seems like DN wants to play outside the scope of the medical infrastructure. Fine, let them do that. It’s just, I’m on a different track.” -Joe “I want DN to win. I want DN to be successful. I also want DN (and I’ve said this many times on the show) to figure out how to have better relationships in this space. Because I hear that’s one of their fundamental issues, is they don’t have any great relationships in this space, and the excuse is that everybody’s in a cabal and out to get them. Perhaps you’re not compromising. Perhaps you’re not able to have reasonable conversations.” -Joe
“In a field that is sometimes boundaryless and ego-dissolving, it’s really important to have boundaries.” -Kyle
Raising children requires a lot of patience, compassion and energy, which is why parents like me turn to microdoses of LSD.
My introduction to LSD happened in 1997 at Penn State University. Phish’s Lawn Boy CD acted as the soundtrack and de facto tour guide for that trip. It was such a fantastic experience that I crammed seeing dozens of Phish concerts on psychedelics into my college curriculum. The acid ignited my senses and soothed my soul; worries about my future and body fat percentage faded and I could live in the moment; one with the music. Then late one night in 2004 atop a muddy mountain in Coventry, Vermont, Phish momentarily ended and a new era of my life began.
I met a man. We fell in love. Swept up in the fairytale romance, I was blissfully unaware that my freewheeling, psychedelically enhanced Phish festival days were being replaced with the crushing realities of juggling a job with family life and childcare concerns. For years I feared that I would never find balance without making myself—or my husband and kids—miserable. Luckily Phish and LSD still play an important role in improving my life, though in much smaller doses. So how does a modern mom—between work, cheer practice, swimming lessons, and PTA meetings—find time to start microdosing lysergic acid diethylamide?
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How Does One Become a Microdosing Mom?
In 2009, I was too busy working long hours at a weekly tabloid magazine, planning my wedding, and buying a house to care that Phish reunited. During the next few years, life changed so rapidly in such a short amount of time that I lost sight of my own needs and could feel the light inside me dimming. I got married in October and was pregnant by Christmas. Those were happy days, but just a week before my daughter’s first birthday (and the day before my own birthday) my father died undergoing heart surgery.
The day after his funeral, I dropped my one-year-old off at my mother-in-law’s house in an utter haze before heading to my first day of work at a brand-new celebrity weekly magazine. Quietly sobbing in a bathroom stall during lunch and panic attacks before editorial pitch meetings became my normal routine, while everyone I loved told me that the demands of the job would be the best way for me to get through my grief. I wanted to believe them. Instead, I felt sadder and meaner to those closest to me as they reminded me that I was no different or special than any other working mother. My doctor gave me a lecture on my weight gain and a Prozac prescription.
For years, I self-medicated with too much cannabis and wine and popped Prozac. I quit it all to get pregnant again. My second daughter was delivered in distress at 31 weeks. She weighed just two pounds. I was too scared to celebrate her birth and fell deeper into depression. Today she’s a strong-willed, fearless five-year-old and I love her more than words can express. The entire NICU experience left me with severe PTSD, which I had no time to truly treat because I had to get back to my magazine job. I spent just two hours a weekday with my girls and half that time I couldn’t wait to put them to bed because I was too mentally drained and depressed to find any joy in the motherhood journey.
When I got laid off a year later, I felt relief for a brief moment before the anxiety, despair, and depression of not having a steady income crept back into my brain. Of course, there is no time to properly deal with those feelings when you’ve got a teething toddler and curious kindergartner. I desperately wanted to be a better mom, but some days all I could do was prop them up with snacks and the Disney channel and weep silently in the next room. I know I’m not the only parent that experiences this.
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Could Parenting and Psychedelics Go Hand in Hand?
“When you’re a trauma survivor, you think you’ve healed and then you have children and they just push you into your shit,” Pepper Wolfe, a New York-based yoga therapist and wellness coach tells Psychedelics Today. “After my first was born I was struggling with postpartum [depression] and then my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She died when I was six months pregnant with my second and I could not snap out of it. No amount of meditation, yoga, talk therapy, or breathwork made me feel better. I was hitting a wall, not getting better.”
While Wolfe, who is also a licensed social worker, recalls feeling short-fused and super-triggered by normal childhood things, like tantrums and messy meals, I flashback to my own experiences with my young daughters. “I fell apart and was not the mom I wanted to be,” Wolfe tells me. Her dark days could be my dark days. And then, while cleaning her basement she found a long-forgotten stash of magic mushrooms. She took them. “And it was powerfully transformative in my perspective, my reactivity, my patience, and how I felt my body,” says Wolfe. “It was like the lightness came back.”
While that was a full-on trip, Wolfe says that she has since learned how to use psychedelics “in a more disciplined, formal way,” which has helped her to be a better parent by healing her past wounds. “I found that things that I had been working on for years in talk therapies, these issues were just clearing up, these blocks were being removed, and I was having new insights.”
Curiosity got the best of me once I noticed microdosing being discussed as a sort-of-Hail-Mary-miracle in my Phish-loving parents’ social media group. I recalled the bliss of tripping at a show immersed in the sounds and lights and energy. Though I have no desire to melt my face off and then attempt to make patty melts for family dinner, I did wonder if microdosing could be the key to calming my short-fuse and lack of patience for the nitty-gritty of parenting.
I am still in awe of the fact that a tiny bit of LSD helps me to be the mother I’ve always imagined I’d be. I can’t say the same for Prozac.
Obviously, taking a do-it-yourself-at-home approach to dabbling in psychedelics is not for everyone. I’ve used cocaine in conjunction with Weight Watchers to lose 100 lbs., so I may be a little crazy, but I’m also open to experimentation for the sake of self-improvement. That’s how I ended up asking a friend to “get me some Lucy.” I skipped the shrooms and went right for the chemical because I have never been a big fan of psilocybin—it gives me intestinal distress, that is, if I could even chock them down, which for me, is a bad way to begin a trip. Plus, I’ve always preferred the smooth climb to the peak and comedown cycle of an acid trip as opposed to the continuous up and down sensations I experience on psilocybin-containing mushrooms.
A Microdose Experiment
My friend showed up with a little, inconspicuous bottle and said, “This is such a small amount, I can’t charge you.” He left with a carton of eggs from our backyard flock. I stood, alone, in my kitchen looking at that tiny drop encased in amber glass. No one was home; I had hours alone ahead of me. I thought back to that night at Penn State and all of the Phish shows where I felt carefree. Yearning to feel some iota of that joy again, I touched the tip of the dropper to my tongue. Must be a microdose, right?
Twenty minutes later I was at the grocery store, giggling about cheese names and wandering around the glossy stacks of apples and pears in produce. I patiently waited with a smile on my face to pay for the manchego. Back home the living room curtains rippled and dewdrops glistened like chunky metallic glitter on each blade of grass in the backyard. Giggling uncontrollably, I realized this might be more than a microdose.
An acid trip can last anywhere from eight to 12 hours on average. When my husband walked in, I informed him of my microdosing misjudgment. We laughed and he promised to get the kids off the school bus and handle homework duty. I asked Alexa to “play Phish songs” and danced while dusting the house, enjoying the burst of energy. As the sun set on that evening, I began to come down but still had energy to run around the backyard helping my girls catch and release fireflies. I felt genuinely connected to them for the first time in as long as I can remember.
Brad Smith* had a similar experience. The father of two tells me that microdosing LSD “continues to bring me to a more open and understanding place in my daily life, which includes dealing with my two toddler boys. Empathizing with a struggle they are enduring that I would have considered trivial previously, has helped me to better communicate and provide for them.”
Remember, the whole point of microdosing for me was to get mentally healthy and happier without actually hallucinating. Since that day, I’ve learned 10 micrograms works best for my body—I spent a week experimenting while my daughters were on vacation at their grandma’s farmhouse. And I can honestly say that microdosing has made me a better parent by easing my depression and making me more approachable. Plus, I’m more active, aware, and available to my girls both emotionally and physically. I delight in playing games and crafting with them and even have the energy to race around the backyard playing Freeze Tag. I am still in awe of the fact that a tiny bit of LSD helps me to be the mother I’ve always imagined I’d be. I can’t say the same for Prozac.
What The Experts and Other Microdosing Parents are Saying
Much like my own experience misjudging a microdose, it’s a common occurrence. Adam Bramlage, who hosts a microdosing course for DoubleBlind Mag and is the Founder and CEO of Flow State Micro, explains to me that the very first thing a person needs to do is dial in their dosage. “It’s important to remember that a very small amount of LSD—especially in liquid or even paper form—can be very, very strong,” says Bramlage. “It is important for parents to start low and go slow—that’s somewhere between 5 or 10 micrograms. Once they find the ‘sweet spot,’ which is the dose that they feel but doesn’t have that classic psychedelic effect, they can experiment with protocols.”
Bramlage recommends microdosing a few days in a row to properly start the process. The Stamets protocol—either five days on and two days off or four days on and three days off—is a popular approach. For beginners, Bramlage usually recommends the Microdosing Institute protocol, which is one day on and one day off. He says, “There is a 48-hour effect to psychedelics, even in small doses. We call it the afterglow or the halo effect. If starting specifically with LSD, which can be considerably stronger than psilocybin in small doses, the user wants to make sure they have the right dose; having the day off will let them see how it’s affecting them.”
According to Bramlage, the Fadiman protocol, which is one day on and two days off, is “a great one for parents because again you’re getting the day off, which is the afterglow, and then the second day off, you’re getting back to baseline so you can notice a difference.”
He speaks from experience. As a single dad with shared custody of a 7-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son, Bramlage says that microdosing LSD “helps increase my energy and stamina throughout the day. It seems to block that default grumpy old man that overreacts to the spilled milk. It puts you in a flow state and when you’re more in the moment and not thinking about other things you can be more present. It allows people to live in the moment instead of worrying about the future or ruminating over the past.” Who couldn’t benefit from that?
Wolfe says she has a lot of friends that “microdose on LSD and are having a lot of peak experiences, flow states, and great work performances. And I just kept thinking, ‘I just want to be a better parent. I want the generational trauma to stop with me. I don’t want to make my wounds their wounds.’ And for me, that’s what psychedelics did.”
Microdosing for Parents: Not a Miracle Cure for Everyone
Of course, microdosing doesn’t work for every parent. Oregon mother of five, Ashleigh Stevenson*, didn’t see any benefit from trying microdosing. “I was looking to improve my mood and allow me to be a more present parent to my crew, which includes 2-year-old twins,” she says. After getting no relief from magic mushroom capsules, she moved on to LSD. “But it still didn’t do anything for me. I knew it wouldn’t make me trip or anything like that, but it didn’t make me feel any happier or at peace with my crazy home life. I just felt more anxious, like what is wrong with me? Why won’t this work?”
She’s not alone. Washington D.C. native Leo Greene* is disappointed in his microdosing experience, too. “I’m normally a pretty happy-go-lucky guy. But the pandemic and being home with the kids nonstop for like a year really put me in a difficult place, and I struggled not to default back to yelling. Parents in my social circle were raving about finding their joy and having the energy to chase their kids around the National Zoo,” he shares. “So I tried [microdosing] a few times, and what a letdown. I felt nothing, nada, zilch.” Though Greene says, he is open to continued experimentation. “I will keep messing around with the dosage and hopefully find one that works for me. My kids are the best, and I want to be my best as a dad for them.”
Due to restrictive drug policies, placebo-controlled studies on psychedelics are few and far between. Despite that, the Imperial College of London managed to conduct the largest placebo-controlled trial on microdosing psychedelics, although it was ‘self blinded’ meaning participants did it all themselves. The results suggest that the benefits of microdosing may be the result of the ‘placebo effect’—or all in our minds. In other words, we might be creating our own microdosing euphoria more so than the LSD. During the study, 191 participants followed online instructions on incorporating placebo control into their microdosing routines to observe whether it can improve cognitive function and psychological well being. There was significant improvement of all psychological outcomes for the microdose group, however the placebo group—who had no idea they weren’t taking the psychedelic—also experienced nearly equal improvements.
However, that doesn’t stop many parents from having very positive effects, like Oregon native Danica Aria* who is positive that microdosing LSD makes her a better mom, too. “I don’t think it’s hindered my parenting skills but rather helps bring me more patience and calmness to many scenarios that would normally stress me out. I wish other parents would know the beneficial qualities hallucinogens can provide,” she says.
Bramlage believes that day is coming. “We have long known that LSD has been an amazing chemical and agent for change,” he says. “I believe that psychedelics and microdosing are the secret to saving our society and that all starts with re-educating people. We need to break the myths down, to tell the truth—let parents know that there are amazing potential benefits and uses for LSD.”
Until then, you can find me hanging out with my friend Lucy whether I’m at home getting crafty with my kids or at Phish shows surrendering to the flow.
*Name has been changed
About the Author
Amy L. Hogan delights in writing about celebrities, cannabis, psychedelics and sometimes even witches for both print and digital media. In 2001, she received her Bachelor of Arts degree from The Writers Institute at Susquehanna University. She resides on the East Coast with her husband, two daughters, three cats and a chicken named Fluffhead.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Devon Christie: Vancouver-based counsellor, instructor, and Therapeutic Services Director for Numinous Wellness Inc., and Will Siu, MD, DPhil: Los Angeles-based Psychiatrist. Both are MAPS-trained in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy and are currently co-investigators on a study investigating MDMA-assisted therapy for fibromyalgia.
They talk about chronic pain: how it overlaps strongly with PTSD, why MDMA is the best candidate for success in treating it, and how we can retrain the brain and shift our relationship in how we experience pain. And they talk about how psychedelics are great tools but also a risk for retraumatization: If the movement for access to these medicines outpaces both the science and the amount of people trained in helping someone work through an experience, could we be creating even more trauma?
And they discuss the mind-body connection: how implicit memories and lack of touch and reciprocal engagement can lead to a developing brain not learning how to manage pain; the concept of learned response looping, how to complete a survival impulse in an organized way, and the optimal arousal zone; how oppression and religious or cultural judgement changes one’s relationship with their body; and how learning more about the fascia could be the key toward understanding how the body’s different systems influence each other.
Notable Quotes
“Even in modern medicine, when people get sick, you can almost see this philosophical orientation of: ‘The body is not to be trusted; I’ve been betrayed by my body.’ There’s a lot of fear people have towards their bodies, which I think is perpetuated in how Western medicine holds things in general (not necessarily intentionally, but through the legacy of time), whereas in my post-graduate learnings and forays into somatics and trauma and functional medicine, it’s like: Actually, the mind-body split is false, and every single moment, my felt experience is informing my cognitive processes and my thoughts and vice-versa. And so I think where this then brings us, in terms of pain management, is needing to really acknowledge this as true and start to really empower people back into trusting the wisdom of their bodies.” -Devon “In my first intramuscular ketamine experience, I sat in my Doctor’s office and I was doing all these different movements, which, at the time I didn’t know what they were, but they were different yoga poses (yoga is nothing I’ve ever been into). But I was able to do [them] and flex and be more supple in so many different ways during my ketamine session, and that made very little sense to me at the time. …I wonder if ketamine- it’s so physically dissociative and it’s so unique compared to the other psychedelics- is it almost like opening up and loosening the unconscious of the fascia itself, and is that why we’re able to move and dance and flow from a physical nature much more differently than with other psychedelics?” -Will
“One of the things that we know in healing chronic pain is that we need to help people reconceptualize pain, and perhaps pain, instead of being this big, bad, awful thing that’s happened that I have to live with; well, what if pain had a voice? What would it be saying? If our body-mind is intelligent, then what is this manifestation of physical pain about? And to get curious about that and to then be able to explore it and with the help of psychedelics …there’s tremendous opportunity to really shift our internal relationship, not only in how we think about it, but truly in how we experience ourselves.” -Devon
“When we really shift our attitude and we have a very powerful emotional experience in terms of maybe reconceptualizing who we think we are [or] our relationship to our pain, and that has a very positive emotional valence, then there’s this opportunity that that’s really going to stay with us. If a traumatic experience can have such a lasting impact on us, well, why not also an extremely positive experience, and one that’s shared relationally, where we’re witnessed and there’s connection?” -Devon
Dr. Devon Christie, MD, is a clinical instructor with the UBC Department of Medicine and has a focused practice in chronic pain. She is a Registered Counsellor emphasizing Relational Somatic Therapy for trauma, and a certified Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction teacher (UCSD) and Interpersonal Mindfulness teacher (UMass). She is trained to deliver both MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD (MAPS USA) and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. She is passionate about educating future psychedelic therapists on trauma-informed, relational somatic skills and is co-founder of the Psychedelic Somatic Psychotherapy training program. She also teaches for the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) Certificate Program in Psychedelic Therapy and Research, the Integrative Psychiatry Institute Certificate Program in Psychedelic Assisted Therapy, and the ONCA Foundation Psychedelic Therapy program. She is currently Principal Investigator and study therapist for a Canadian MAPS-sponsored open-label compassionate access study investigating MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, co-investigator on a study investigating MDMA-assisted therapy for fibromyalgia, and is the Medical and Therapeutic Services Director with Numinus Wellness Inc.
Will Siu, MD, DPhil, completed medical and graduate school at UCLA and the University of Oxford, respectively, before training as a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School. He remained on the faculty at Harvard for two years prior to moving to New York City to further pursue his interest in psychedelic medicine as a practitioner and public advocate. Will is an advisor to Bexson Biomedical and People Science. He, along with Devon Christie, MD, and People Science, is preparing a pilot research study for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for fibromyalgia. Will has been trained by MAPS to provide MDMA-assisted therapy and maintains a private practice in Los Angeles. He teaches and supervises therapists and psychiatrists as part of his clinical practice.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we’re back to the old school crew of Joe and Kyle again, this time with no news but plenty of conversation.
They first talk about the origin of Psychedelics Today and the first version of Navigating Psychedelics: how they found themselves wanting more and more to talk about transpersonal experiences and realizing they were living in a culture where professors didn’t want to talk about any kind of depth work, nobody at conferences seemed to know much about Stan Grof or Holotropic Breathwork, the drug war was raging on, and even Rick Strassman was telling Kyle that science doesn’t want to hear about the transpersonal.
From there, they discuss a lot more: How the limitations of humanistic psychology led to the creation of transpersonal psychology, what the term “transpersonal” entails, how different ecosystems demand different rules, the concept of negentropy, William James, the logistics of reincarnation, why it’s wrong to dismiss archetypal astrology, the idea of healing as a side effect of exploration, and the difficulty of creating a training manual for something as relational and process-oriented as Holotropic Breathwork or psychedelic therapy.
And they talk about their goals with Psychedelics Today: Learn to work with the nuance and wild complexity that lives in all parts of this psychedelic renaissance, take small steps to achieve small goals, remember to live passionately and not fall into a capitalistic rat race, and most importantly; to do their best to work together with everyone else in this space to make this more of a community.
Notable Quotes
“Thinking about psychedelics in general and psychedelic therapy, do we create these highly detailed protocols around the therapy, or do we understand the art of it and leave space open for more of a process-oriented approach and understanding that there’s a lot of nuance and it’s really hard to proceduralize some of this stuff?” -Kyle
“Study a particular science far enough and you’ll see that the science ends at a certain point.” -Joe “It doesn’t make sense. All of this stuff doesn’t make sense. We’re paying tax dollars to incarcerate people for not hurting other people …when we could be spending those dollars to help us survive the next 50 years better by spending on climate projects. Why is it better to lock families up for generations than to save countless lives in the future and preserve biodiversity on the planet?” -Joe
“What is existence other than chaos with a little bit of rhyming with the past?” -Joe
Phencyclidine or “angel dust” is a misrepresented psychedelic intertwined with a history of racism and police brutality. But efforts to rehabilitate this drug are met with scorn.
This is the second part of a two-part series on why the psychedelic scene ignores PCP. Check out Part 1 here.
PCP, a drug that also goes by the names “angel dust” and “dipper” among others, remains one of the most stigmatized and misunderstood psychedelics around. However, there is little scientific evidence to suggest that PCP is any more dangerous than any other drug. Alcohol, ketamine, LSD and acetaminophen (Tylenol) can all be just as hazardous if used recklessly.
Much of what people think they know about PCP is shaped by outdated media scare stories and urban legends, not actual evidence. (For more on the science, history, discovery and true dangers of PCP, read Part 1 of this series.) Yet the psychedelic community largely ignores PCP while pushing for the legalization of drugs like MDMA and psilocybin.
One aspect of PCP that cannot be ignored is how this mythology directly plays into the militarization of law enforcement and the proliferation of police brutality. The specific demonization of PCP is not only unwarranted, the stigma can be more deadly than the drug.
PCP was discovered in the 1950’s and was used clinically as an anesthetic for about a decade before being replaced by ketamine—a closely-related drug that offers the same pain-killing benefits with less hallucinations. Sometime in the ‘60s, PCP made its way onto the streets of San Francisco’s Haight-Ashbury district, then spread across the nation. In its wake, horrific stories of users gouging out their eyes or withstanding storms of bullets followed.
Strangely, illicit PCP use has largely been restricted to the U.S. “It has failed to gain traction anywhere else on the planet,” according to an analysis byVICE. Its popularity has waned since the ‘80s, and PCP use remains largely constrained to cities like Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. But for much of the ‘70s and into the ‘90s, PCP was the panic drug du jour.
In 1977,Time Magazine described it as “A Terror of A Drug” while in 1980 the Chicago Tribune warned its allure was the “Sniff of Madness.” In 1982 the Los Angeles Times pegged it as a “Modern-Day Plague,” according to historian Jacob Taylor’s thesis,PCP in the American Media.
“It’s kind of like a part of police lore, this substance that people take that makes them immune to pain and unreasonable and gives them superhuman strength,” Hamilton Morris, a chemist and documentary filmmaker who has done films about both the positive and negative aspects of PCP, tells Psychedelics Today. “It’s almost designed to terrify law enforcement.”
The stark reputation of PCP soon became a justification for police violence, as the idea spread “that users of the drug, once on a violent rampage, were almost impossible to stop,” Taylor reports. “Police spoke of being thrown around ‘like ragdolls,’ and of needing six or more officers to physically restrain one intoxicated individual. Most notoriously, several incidents were documented in which arrestees high on PCP broke free of handcuffs by simply tearing apart the steel-link chains.”
There’s really little actual evidence to back up these claims. A 1988 analysis in theJournal of Clinical Psychopharmacologylooked at 350 studies of PCP and only found three instances of violence, leading the authors to conclude, “PCP does not live up to its reputation as a violence-inducing drug.”
Furthermore, these tales of super human strength may sound familiar: The “negro cocaine fiends” of the early 20th century were an invented media legend used as an extension of the Jim Crow South to demonize Black people. Similar stories of bloodthirsty cocaine users with hyper-strength impervious to bullets were instrumental in banning cocaine and heroin under the Harrison Tax Act.
The specific demonization of PCP is not only unwarranted, the stigma can be more deadly than the drug.
Phencyclidine and Police Brutality
There are echoes of that history in how PCP is perceived by law enforcement today. And the reputation of this drug making users into frenzied killers has real world consequences, especially given that PCP is a cheap drug “linked to urban zones of poverty, unemployment and high crime,” as VICE reports. “In other words it’s a drug linked to inequality, and groups of people who are more likely to be excluded from the mainstream economy, with housing and employment problems, such as the Black community.”
Police officers commonly use fear as an excuse for lethal force—and this defense often works. In the shooting of Philando Castile, officer Jeronimo Yanez of the St. Anthony, Minnesota Police Department, told jurors “I was scared to death. I thought I was going to die,” according to thePioneer Press. Yanez was not convicted. And the “I-feared-for-my-life narrative” is only multiplied when a strange, infamous drug is introduced.
“When you really think about what that does to the psychology of law enforcement, it’s a terrifying idea,” Morris says. “If they genuinely believe that someone has superhuman strength, that means they can kill you easily. If you believe that the people who use this substance have superhuman strength, that’s a justification for excessive lethal force.”
This is exactly what has happened on numerous occasions, even in recent history. On March 23, 2020, Rochester police approached Daniel Prude, who was naked and having a mental health episode. Officers placed a ‘spit hood’ over Prude’s head, a mesh bag designed to prevent spitting and biting. They then pressed his face into the ground for two minutes, suffocating the 41-year-old man.
A year later, the New York State Attorney General announced the seven officers involved in the case would not face any criminal charges—their lawyers argued that PCP had killed the man, not their actions. A medical examiner’s report listed the death as a homicide, but noted that PCP in Prude’s system contributed to his death.
Of course, just a few weeks after Prude’s death, George Floyd was murdered in Minneapolis by officer Derek Chauvin under similar circumstances: suffocation while being pressed into the ground. In fact, one of the other officers, Thomas Lane, can be heard asking Chauvin if Floyd might be on PCP. Floyd later tested negative for the drug, but methamphetamine and fentanyl were found in his blood. So Chauvin’s defense emphasized that these drugs must have killed Floyd—not the fact that his knee was on Floyd’s neck for 9 and a half minutes. A jury did not agree and convicted Chauvin of two counts of murder and one count of manslaughter.
The case of Laquan McDonald is another rare case in which a police officer was convicted of murder for killing an unarmed civilian. In October 2014, McDonald was walking away from Officer Jason Van Dyke when he was shot 16 times in the back. Van Dyke wasn’t charged until over a year later when dashcam footage was released via a judge’s order.
During the trial, a pharmacologist named James Thomas O’Donnell testified that McDonald was “whacked on PCP,” which had been found during an autopsy. But jurors weren’t convinced and found Van Dyke guilty of 16 counts of aggravated battery with a firearm and second-degree murder.
Typically, however, when PCP is involved, that isn’t the case. In 2016 Terence Crutcher was shot dead by officer Betty Jo Shelby in Tulsa, Oklahoma. An autopsy showed “acute phencyclidine intoxication” and also the presence of TCP, a similar drug to PCP. A jury found her not guilty.
“Psychedelic enthusiasts were conspicuously silent when Van Dyke used PCP as justification for his savagery,” Dr. Carl Hart, a neuroscientist and professor of psychology at Columbia University wrote in his most recent book, Drug Use For Grownups. “We also didn’t hear a peep from them when Betty Jo Shelby, a white Oklahoman police officer, evoked the ‘crazy nigger on PCP’ defense to justify her killing of unarmed black Terence Crutcher.”
But PCP doesn’t actually have to be involved, either. The most famous example is likely from March 1991, when Rodney King was yanked from his vehicle and savagely beaten by four Los Angeles police officers. One of them yelled, “He’s dusted!” but King later tested negative for PCP—only alcohol was in his system.
However, during the trial, a “drug expert” declared the officers were “justified” in their belief that King was under the influence of PCP, according to the Chicago Tribune. The officers were acquitted, although two were later sentenced to 30 months in prison by a federal court.
‘Non-Lethal’ Weapons And PCP
One particular PCP-related incident fundamentally changed policing in America. In 1977, 35-year-old biochemist Ronald Burkholder was naked in the streets of Los Angeles, high on PCPy (also called rolicyclidine), a PCP analogue in the class of arylcyclohexylamines. Burkholder was allegedly climbing a sign pole, came down and tried to grab LAPD sergeant Kurt G. Barz’s nightstick. After a struggle, Barz shot Burkholder six times. Because he was naked and unarmed, the case drew considerable controversy, including from the ACLU.
According to Morris, this case and other police murder incidents “produced enough social pressure on law enforcement that they started to carry tasers and pepper spray,” Morris says, adding, “You can actually trace the history of non-lethal incapacitating agents being used by law enforcement to PCP.”
“Cops wanted some kind of tool that would allow them to subdue folks high on PCP without having to lay hands on them. The Taser did the trick,” journalist Matt Stroud reported forOneZero. According to Taylor, some police departments “experimented with ‘grabbing-sticks,’ nets, water-cannons, sound-wave guns, bean-bag guns, and, in a surreal example from New York City, mace-spraying robots … It created a culture of fear among police which must have had a lasting, negative impact on their work.”
“As Americans, when we participate in racism, I think we use at our disposal whatever tools are available. And sometimes PCP can be used as one of those tools.”
With a new market, many companies soon filled the gap, often openly advertising so-called “less-than-lethal” weaponry using PCP as a selling point. “A lot of companies would market to law enforcement non-lethal equipment, like tasers, stun guns, there were nets, and they would really play up the fact that these are for people that are intoxicated on PCP specifically,” Dr. Jason Wallach, a neuropsychopharmacologist who has studied PCP and related chemicals, tells Psychedelics Today. “Anytime they can sell using fear, companies will.”
Encouragement came from the federal government as well. For example, a 1994 bulletin from the National Institute of Justice advertised oleoresin capsicum—that is, pepper spray—and flat out quotes a police sergeant saying, “When confronting subjects under the influence of PCP … ‘OC is the best option short of a lethal weapon. If we did not have pepper spray, we would have to use lethal force. Having OC is another tool to use at the lowest possible level versus impact weapons, which won’t work anyway on subjects under the influence of PCP,” implying that people on PCP are impervious to bullets.
Even today companies market misinformation about PCP to sell something. Lexipol, a Texas consulting company that provides training to police departments, has a blog post on its website from 2016 titled, “5 safety tips for cops when dealing with a subject high on PCP.” It contains multiple urban legends, such as suspects breaking free of handcuffs or that PCP can be absorbed through the skin, an echo of the fentanyl touch myth that persists in the media today. It even suggests drugging people: “allow medical providers, if available and authorized, to use sedative medications to chemically restrain the patient.”
But describing these tools as “less-than-lethal” is just a euphemism—they can and do kill. A 2017Reuters investigation documented 1,005 deaths from tasers, in which 9 out of 10 involved unarmed people. The news organization was able to obtain 712 autopsies, reporting: “In 153 of those cases, or more than a fifth, the Taser was cited as a cause or contributing factor in the death.”
Tasers also don’t reduce police shootings. An eight-year study of the Chicago Police Department by the National Bureau of Economic Research, for example, noted that, “Police injuries fell, but neither injury rates nor the number of injuries to civilians were affected. There is no evidence that Tasers led to a reduction in police use of firearms.”
PCP is uniquely treated among drug users and law enforcement. Even drugs that are somewhat similar to PCP are not given the same level of stigma. But in the end, drugs are often just used as an excuse for racism and over-policing in America—the chemical itself is irrelevant.
“As Americans, when we participate in racism, I think we use at our disposal whatever tools are available. And sometimes PCP can be used as one of those tools,” Hart tells Psychedelics Today. “I don’t think that PCP is special in that way or anything like that.”
People who care about ending the drug war or generally reforming drug policy should be aware of the history of racism and police brutality that has played into PCP’s reputation as a dangerous drug. Like any drug, PCP can be abused. But what actually makes drug use dangerous often has more to do with prohibition than any intrinsic nature of a chemical. And police overwhelmingly benefit from the power dynamics of prohibition, meaning they have a deep investment in this mythology.
“It’s not really about PCP, of course,” Morris says. “The bigger issue is the way that we assign certain values to drugs as pharmacological determinism, and what the medical and political outcomes of that can be in terms of prison sentences, in terms of law enforcement’s behavior.”
This is why PCP should probably be more centered in the conversation about psychedelic drug reform. The efforts to decriminalize drugs shouldn’t just focus on the substances people think are safe or socially acceptable, but focus on ending the systems that inflict suffering on minorities and low-income communities.
“The main most important thing is for people to know that pharmacologically, [PCP] is not that dissimilar from ketamine,” Hart says. “And the sort of narratives that we tell ourselves about it has less to do with pharmacology, and more to do with these social sort of issues. I just hope that they’re not fooled by those cop stories any longer.”
About the Author
Troy Farahis an independent science and drug policy reporter that lives in Southern California with his wife and two dogs. His work has appeared in National Geographic, The Guardian, VICE, WIRED and others. He co-hosts the podcast Narcotica and can be found on Twitter @filth_filler or on his website troyfarah.com .
In this episode, Kyle and Michelle interviewreturn guest, Manesh Girn: Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience at McGill University and co-author of over a dozen scientific publications, most recently on the neurocognitive processes behind creative thinking and the potentiality for psychedelics to enhance creativity.
Girn explains neuroplasticity and how it relates to the default-mode, salience, and other networks; how his paper maps the similarities between psychedelic mind states, dream states, and different types of thought; the distinctions between objective, subjective, spontaneous, and deliberate creativity; the difference between psychological and cognitive flexibility; how it’s an oversimplification to so strongly attribute ego dissolution to default-mode network interconnectivity, and how psilocybin affected people’s creativity and perceived insightfulness in a recent study inspired by his paper.
He also looks at some philosophical concepts from a scientific perspective: Do we really understand what ego dissolution is? Do ego death and a mystical experience always have to go hand-in-hand? Could a crazy idea that science wouldn’t qualify as “novel and useful” actually lead to both (after integrating the experience)? And is the true benefit from psychedelics in learning how to use the biological benefits of neuroplasticity in harmony with self-analysis and taking consistent steps toward lasting change?
Notable Quotes
“People are just thinking that psilocybin and LSD might be similar, but the thing with ketamine is that usually, you have to take repeated dosing. The effects maybe last a week, 2 weeks if you’re lucky, and then you [have] to do it again. And that’s because, I believe, in that context, you’re not working through the psychological content that emerged, you’re not making real, lasting change. You’re just getting this little push for a bit, and then you fall back into your patterns. And you get a push and you fall back. And if you want to be cynical, pharmaceutical companies will like that model because that means you’re a returning customer, indefinitely.” “We’re not just brains that are just disconnected from the external environment, just floating around in our heads. We’re deeply intertwined with the collective, with society, with people around us, with our nutrition, with everything going on. So therefore, taking all of these things into account [is] important, not just: ‘Forget the whole systemic cause for your issue; take this drug and maybe you’ll feel better’ in almost a Brave New World-type way. And that’s the standard way of approaching it a lot of times. So it irks me when they try to put psychedelics into this box too with these different things, which I think often, are just based [on] a fear of altered states and a fear of facing your inner demons a lot of the times. It’s like, why do that when you can take a drug and feel better, artificially?” “Obviously psychedelics aren’t a panacea that are going to work for everybody and solve everything, but I think what they do do is they draw attention to the need for inner work and the possibility of radical change, of personal transformation. Because a lot of people in their 30s, 40s, and above, perhaps, are like, ‘Oh this is who I am now. This anxiety, this depression, these bad habits: that’s just me. That’s just who I am’, which is a profoundly limiting narrative to take on, but a lot of people have that. And I think not even going through a psychedelic experience themselves, but it’s seeing other people in the media or their friends being able to change; they’re like, ‘Oh, there’s hope for changing and there’s hope for transformation.’”
Manesh is a Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience at McGill University and has been lead or co-author on over a dozen scientific publications and book chapters on topics including psychedelics, meditation, mind-wandering, and the default-mode network. His Ph.D. dissertation focuses on the default-mode network and he is also conducting research on the brain mechanisms underlying LSD, psilocybin, and DMT in collaboration with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris and others from the Imperial College London Center for Psychedelic Research. In his free time, he also runs a YouTube channel, The Psychedelic Scientist, where he discusses the latest findings in psychedelic science in an easy to understand, but non-superficial form.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle are joined by lawyer and lead Policy Council at MAPS, Ismail L. Ali.
In the teams’ past coverage of Scott Wiener’s Senate Bill 519, there has admittedly been some confusion about what exactly it entails, as well as judgments made without hearing from someone on the inside. So we felt it was time to have someone on the podcast who could explain it to all of us better, and Ali was the perfect candidate, having just been a witness at the California State Assembly Health Committee hearing on SB-519 and a member of MAPS (who has been working with Wiener’s team).
And he goes into SB-519 in depth: how it sets the groundwork for future reforms, why they went a different direction than Oregon, how MAPS has been involved, why the bill has changed (concerning expungement, ketamine, and possession limits), what lawmakers are most concerned about, Decriminalize Nature’s issues with the bill, and what he hopes comes next. He also talks about his path towards psychedelics and his family history with ayahuasca and facilitation, his concerns over monopolies and repeating the mistakes of the cannabis industry, what he’d like to see replace D.A.R.E., drug exceptionalism, and the importance of recognizing celebratory drug use as a legitimate healing tool.
Notable Quotes
“A lot of the media attention it’s gotten has been focused on it as a psychedelic decriminalization bill, but one thing that I just want to acknowledge is that it’s a little bit broader than that, in the sense that it also sets what I believe to be some really critical groundwork for future drug decriminalization or even regulated, adult-use legalization.” “The idea that not having named limits means unlimited possession is not real. What that means is that it’s unknown until there is an arrest and a case that determines [it], in which case it’s going to be the judge [or] the prosecution determining what that limit is, as opposed to the people who are actually advocating in support of the bill.”
“What if we decriminalized some of these psychedelic substances based on the premise that they’re safer, or based on the premise that they’re good for you in certain cases, in certain situations? I feel that that could really undermine efforts to be decriminalizing on criminal, legal, or human rights grounds- where it doesn’t matter if the drug is good for you or not, people shouldn’t be thrown in jail for ingesting it. I think that’s another sticky point that I think we, as a movement, really need to be talking about so we’re not leaving behind users of other drugs.”
“If we know that a drug is more likely to be adulterated, is more likely to be a risk, why are we keeping it in the underground, where there’s no accountability for people who adulterate it with substances that are significantly more harmful?”
Ismail L. Ali is Policy & Advocacy Counsel for MAPS, where he advocates to eliminate barriers to psychedelic therapy and research, develops and implements legal and policy strategy, and coordinates support for clinical research in Latin America. Ismail is licensed to practice law in the state of California and also serves as Vice-Chair of the Students for Sensible Drug Policy Board of Directors. Ismail earned his J.D. at the University of California, Berkeley School of Law in 2016, after receiving his Bachelor’s in Philosophy from California State University, Fresno, in 2012, where he also studied writing and Spanish-language literature. As a law student, Ismail served as co-lead of Berkeley Law’s chapter of Students for Sensible Drug Policy and worked for the ACLU of Northern California’s Criminal Justice and Drug Policy Project, and the International Human Rights Law Clinic at Berkeley Law. To first support his work at MAPS, Ismail received Berkeley Law’s Public Interest Fellowship. Ismail believes that psychedelic consciousness is a crucial piece of challenging oppression in all of its forms, and that legal access to psychedelics is an essential part of a progressive drug policy paradigm. He hopes to help develop and advocate for just, equitable, and creative alternatives to the failed war on drugs.
Stigma against PCP or “angel dust” contradicts the science of this misunderstood psychedelic. But, will the psychedelic community ever look at phencyclidine favorably?
The retro schlock horror of cannabis turning teenagers into murderous sex fiends is nothing but laughable today. The same Reefer Madness applied to psychedelic drugs like LSD or psilocybin “magic” mushrooms is also rightfully judged to be an absurd relic of the Nixon era. Even attitudes on heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine have slightly relaxed—sure, these drugs can be highly addictive, but few believe they turn you into a bloodthirsty monster.
Yet one narcotic still remains in the public consciousness as nothing but a lethal menace that will drive users into fugues of brutal rage: PCP.
Ever since its arrival on the black market in the 1960s, PCP, or phencyclidine, has been saddled with a reputation of extreme violence, cannibalism and superhuman strength. Urban legends of “angel dust” consumers breaking squad car doors off their hinges or bursting from handcuffs persist—despite the fact that scientific evidence for PCP causing any such behavior is non-existent, to put it lightly.
Like many other demonized drugs, such as ketamine or MDMA, PCP has a long history of therapeutic use. And PCP is a psychedelic, too, not just a dissociative anesthetic. But while drug policy reform advocates are pushing the Overton window when it comes to so-called “classic” psychedelics, PCP is notably left out of the conversation. But why?
“I am deeply disturbed that there is a deafening silence from the psychedelic community while fellow drug users continue to be brutalized as a result of PCP-related misapprehensions,” Dr. Carl Hart, a neuroscientist and professor of psychology at Columbia University wrote in his most recent book, Drug Use For Grownups. But he acknowledges a likely explanation: “Drawing attention to the fact that PCP is also a psychedelic might jeopardize the reputation, and thus the availability, of other psychedelics.”
PCP could be seen as another example of “psychedelic exceptionalism,” in which certain drugs are seen as “better” than others because they are used by certain people and not others. For example, the Decriminalize Nature movement has taken the U.S. by storm, loosening laws against “plant medicine” like ayahuasca, ibogaine and mescaline cactus, not to mention psilocybin fungi. But these laws—which have passed in at least seven cities, including Oakland, Ann Arbor and Cambridge—exclude other plant medicines like opium, coca leaf, khat and more.
The same narrow-mindedness or lack of political scrutiny could be said about PCP, according to Hart and other experts, such as Dr. Jason Wallach, a neuropsychopharmacologist and assistant pharmaceutical sciences professor at the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia. Wallach has closely studied PCP, ketamine and related drugs like 3-MeO-PCP, publishing numerous reports on this class of drugs (known technically as arylcyclohexylamines), including a textbook chapter devoted to dissociative anesthetics.
“I don’t see anything about PCP that makes it inherently more dangerous than other dissociative drugs, like ketamine, for example,” Wallach tells Psychedelics Today. “I think the stigma around PCP is almost exclusively of the media’s creation.”
Understanding how that myth of PCP was created—and how the power structures it serves persist today—is essential for anyone who truly cares about drug policy reform.
Like many drugs, the profound psychoactivity of PCP was an unexpected discovery. On March 26, 1956, a medicinal chemist named Dr. Victor Maddox was developing various compounds for Parke-Davis and Company in Detroit, Michigan. Maddox showed one molecule, which he temporarily named GP 121, to his coworker, Dr. Graham Chen, who said it was the most unique compound that he had ever examined. This was phencyclidine, or PCP.
Structurally, PCP resembles a stupor-inducing drug that is produced in Corydalis cava flowers called bulbocapnine, which was used by the CIA in the agency’s Project MKUltra mind control experiments. Chen dubbed PCP a “cataleptoid anesthetic” and began giving it to animals. Some of the cats he injected with PCP would remain in a state of rigid, fixed posture for 24 hours, while a wild rhesus monkey became so calm it allowed researchers to jam their fingers in its mouth without biting.
Following further testing in animals, a Dr. Edward Domino revealed that PCP was much less toxic than opioids and human trials began around a year later. By 1963, PCP was patented and sold as a drug with the brand names Serynl and Sernylan, which come from the word “serenity.” (Not exactly the word most people associate with PCP today.)
“As patients were anesthetized with PCP, it became obvious that the drug, when properly administered by an anesthesiologist, was indeed very safe, far safer than most anesthetics that were then available,” Domino wrote in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs in 1980. But there was a problem. Some patients experienced “the sensation of feeling no arms or legs and being in outer space,” Domino wrote.
The side effects of PCP—hallucinations, delirium, confusion—were too much for many clinicians. Chemists quickly cooked up an alternative and in 1962, chemistry professor Calvin Stevens presented a new drug to the world: ketamine. PCP was voluntarily withdrawn from the market in 1965.
“PCP and ketamine are chemical cousins,” Hart tells Psychedelics Today. “So if you’re going to classify ketamine as a psychedelic thing, you have to classify PCP as a psychedelic.”
Yes, ketamine and PCP are very similar in nature. But while ketamine is heralded as the latest “breakthrough drug” for treating mental health—which it very well could be—PCP is still considered by some to be the “most dangerous drug.” But how dangerous is it really?
For Brian, who lives in the Washington, D.C. area, PCP was like “the boogie man.” He was familiar with stories of people taking it and stripping naked in the street, so he’s not sure what finally motivated him to try it. But a friend with sickle cell anemia was dipping cigarettes in liquid PCP—what locals call “the dipper”—and said, “If this guy has fucking sickle cell anemia and he’s not scared, I can’t let him go out by himself. So I hit it too.”
Brian, whose real name is not being used, says the first thing he noticed was ringing in his ears like an alarm going off in the distance, followed by a feeling of being immersed in water. On the phone, he made a warbly sound, like batteries dying in a cassette tape deck.
“It feels fucking odd and awkward,” Brian says. “But once you come down, it’s like clarity out of the chaos. I just descend it to a single cell organism and feel in tune with every fucking thing.”
Brian says he’s had multiple, profound psychedelic experiences on PCP. “I’ve literally had moments where I definitely feel that my fucking heightened crown chakra just exploded,” he says. “It actually exploded to a different consciousness, where I was an observer of myself.”
However, Brian, who has also used DMT and mushrooms, is first to admit that it’s “not all peaches and cream,” as he puts it. Several times, he says he’s woken up in the hospital. “It’s more chaotic, and more traumatizing and more negative than it has been positive,” he says. “But those positive times have been extremely fucking groundbreaking.”
Filmmaker and chemist Hamilton Morris has tried to show both sides of this drug. In fact, Morris says PCP was behind the entire genesis of his drug documentary series on Viceland, Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia. Morris recalls arguing with an executive producer about the show’s content, who said, essentially, “Well, you have to admit that some drugs are bad.”
Morris tells Psychedelics Today that he responded, “No, I don’t have to have to admit that at all. And he said, ‘Well, what about PCP? You couldn’t possibly say that PCP is good.’ And I said, certainly I could make the case that it’s not what people think it is. And that was sort of the origin of the show.”
Episode two, “A Positive PCP Story”, aired in 2016. It features Morris as he journeys across the U.S. to speak with PCP chemists, both clandestine and legitimate, as well as people like Timothy Wyllie, a British author, a founding member of the Process Church of the Final Judgment, and artist who illustrated sacred landscapes while under the influence of phencyclidine.
In contrast, Morris also interviews people who have struggled with PCP addiction, as well as Christ Bearer, a rapper who attempted suicide on PCP after amputating his penis. Christ Bearer survived his attempt, but now says he’s “proud” of what he did.
“He felt his penis had a negative impact on his life, and cutting it off allowed him to focus on his art,” Morris told The Guardian. “If he stands by it and thinks his life is better as a result, does that really mean he did something bad?”
Horrific self-amputation stories aside, it’s clear that PCP tales like these are anomalies. It doesn’t take much Googling to find almost identical stories involving alcohol. But few people are worried about booze driving people to such violence. Yet, when it comes to PCP, stories like this tend to rise to the top.
“What you shouldn’t do is then try to extrapolate that and say, ‘This is a normal response with PCP,’” Wallach says. (Side note: Wallach and Morris are friends. Wallach appears in the “Positive PCP Story” episode, and in 2014, Morris and Wallach published a scientific review of dissociative drugs, including ketamine and PCP.) “There absolutely have been horrible things that have happened while people were intoxicated. But you could say the same thing about any intoxicant, including ethanol. There’s no good, solid evidence that PCP has a higher propensity to cause this type of response.”
Morris has himself sampled PCP, both by snorting the hydrochloride salt and smoking the freebase. “My experiences with it were, on one hand, unremarkable,” Morris says. “Given that this is a substance that is almost exclusively associated with psychosis and adverse responses of one kind or another, the major takeaway for me was that whatever supposed problems are associated with this drug are not intrinsic problems of PCP. The problems [are] associated with poverty, lack of control over the dosing, black market distribution patterns, mental illness, and so on.”
Will the psychedelic community ever come to terms with PCP like it has other synthetic psychedelics like MDMA, LSD or ketamine? Similar horror stories and misperceptions have plagued these drugs in the past, but today most people recognize the medicinal and (relatively safe) recreational value of psychedelics. PCP seems to remain a hold-out.
“I think it’s certainly something that has been ignored partially because of its association with impoverished people who have no connection to the counterculture, really,” Morris says. “Maybe the biggest issue of all is that this is a substance that middle upper class people don’t use. So in order to really change people’s minds on a large scale, it’s often the case that people have to have direct experience with the substance.”
However, the people I spoke to for this article didn’t seem optimistic that the stigmatizing attitudes toward PCP would change any time soon.
“That sort of myth is too important to opinion makers in our society, including law enforcement, including some people who are trying to distance their favorite drug away from something like PCP,” Hart says. “PCP does not have an advocate. It’s bad enough you don’t have an advocate, you need to have a powerful advocate. And I don’t see PCP having such an advocate.”
Morris agrees perceptions about PCP have been hard to change, even after the success of his TV show. And even the most adventurous psychedelic startups probably won’t want to investigate the scientific, therapeutic value of PCP, although analogs of the drug gacyclidine (a PCP derivative) are being trialed for tinnitus treatment.
“I don’t predict anyone will advocate for that in the near future. But you never know,” Morris says. “It’s just another one of many instances of a substance that has a reputation that has been sculpted, not by any intrinsic property of the substance itself, but by the social framework in which it’s used.”
Troy Farahis an independent science and drug policy reporter that lives in Southern California with his wife and two dogs. His work has appeared in National Geographic, The Guardian, VICE, WIRED and others. He co-hosts the podcast Narcotica and can be found on Twitter @filth_filler or on his website troyfarah.com .
In this episode, Michelle and Joe interview writer, psychedelic advocate, and creator of the online community and non-profit, Black People Trip: Robin Divine.
Divine talks about her path from pandemic depression and knowing nothing about psychedelics to becoming a figurehead, mentor, and people-connector through her Black People Trip Instagram account. She talks about how psychedelics are not seen as options in the Black community partly due to a fear of being arrested, but also because so few Black people are open about therapy, and even fewer talk about psychedelic use. She discusses ways to destigmatize psychedelics in the Black community, the challenges of quickly becoming a representative for others in a new field, the difficulties of living paycheck-to-paycheck and trying to take time to integrate an experience, the extra work and small pieces of “fuckery” BIPOC people have to deal with that so many people don’t think about, “The Gods Must Be Crazy”, Carl Hart, drug exceptionalism and privilege, and the racism of the drug war.
And she talks about all she hopes to do with Black People Trip: a 4-week course on the basics of psychedelics, safety, and trip-sitting, a psychedelic equity fund for Black women, a BIPOC-centered conference, and the continued encouragement of more Black people getting involved in this space. If you follow Black People Trip on Instagram, you know that her last few months have been, in her own words, “hot trash,” and she could use some help. Donate via herGoFundMe or Venmo (@divinerobin) to help her get back to helping others.
Notable Quotes
“I think it’s going to be on Black people to actually get out into neighborhoods and share their own stories and teach each other, because honestly, for me, it helps for me to learn from someone that has a shared history and that looks like me and that I can relate to. I don’t want to go to a conference and hear from a white woman that has a different life story than me. I just can’t relate to that. I can’t relate. It’s all love, but I can’t relate. …I did a very brief ad campaign on my own page just to share Black folks’ stories. People were like, “Oh yes, I want to see more of that.” And it was really so simple, but just seeing someone’s face that they can connect with made a huge difference.”
“I’ve had so many women tell me that they’ll go to a group and they’re the only one. And they’re like, ‘Yeah, it was fine, but I wanted somebody else there.’ So I really want to create spaces where we aren’t the only– we’re it.” “We’re big on church. We love our church. I don’t, but a lot of Black folks do. And so the answer is supposed to be [that] if something is wrong, go to church. Pray it away, go repent or whatever we do, and mental health is not for us. Again, it’s something that white folks do. ‘We shouldn’t need that.’ So when people do go to therapy in the Black community, we’re seen as crazy, we’re labeled as weak, and who wants that? So we avoid it, and if we do go, we don’t talk about it. Me? I love therapy. I go twice a week. I tell everybody about it.”
“I’m in full support of Black-only spaces, the same way I’m in full support of queer-only spaces and women-only spaces. Sometimes you just don’t want to be on guard.” “I think about my own family and our own history of trauma and how I can literally visibly see it just being passed down. And I think if we had been able to sit together, Grandmother, Mother, and me, and just do mushrooms or have MDMA, how different would our lives be right now?”
Robin Divine is a writer, psychedelic advocate, and the creator of Black People Trip: an online community with a mission to raise awareness and create safe spaces for Black women interested in psychedelics.
Robin discovered psychedelics last year as she searched for relief from the symptoms of chronic depression. As she became more involved in the community, she noticed a definite lack of diversity. As a result, she started Black People Trip. Her goal is to raise awareness about psychedelics in marginalized communities. She is also in the process of establishing the Entheogenic Equity Fund, a non-profit which will raise funds to help make psychedelic therapy more financially accessible and available to Black women. Donations accepted via Vemno: @divinerobin
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, we’re back to the original team of Joe and Kyle, who start with some good PT news: the successful launch of our first Australian edition of Navigating Psychedelics, a “partnership of sorts” with Fruiting Bodies Collective, and a few teases of more big things to come…
They first discuss psychedelic research company, Numinus, being granted approval by Health Canada (essentially Canada’s FDA) to study MDMA-assisted therapy, and later discuss Michael Pollan’s newest book, This Is Your Mind On Plants and his previous works. And they report on the launch of The Psychae Institute, a $40m psychedelic medicine institute in Melbourne that will be studying MDMA and likely DMT (which would somehow only be the second study?!).
But most of this episode centers around two topics that keep coming up. First, sexual ethics and power dynamics within the facilitator-experiencer relationship: When is touch ok? What’s the real purpose behind it? Is the facilitator aware of what their actions could be doing? Can you trust them? How do you fully establish consent, and how do you trust someone’s consent when they’re in a non-ordinary state? Is it possible to have a psychedelic session without sexual energy coming up? And when is it ok for a facilitator and experiencer to have a relationship?
And the second big conversation is a classic, but pondered from a slightly different angle: Why do we mistrust big corporations and big pharma so much, when many of us can thank them for saving our lives? And this leads down many roads: Peter Thiel, Fauci, SB-519 possession limits, the social contract, and why lying is sometimes necessary.
Notable Quotes
“The question is, if you are in that position of power: What’s your intention for touching or doing any sort of bodywork? Do you feel that it would be beneficial, or is the person actually asking for it?” -Kyle “[A friend asked me:] Is it possible to have a psychedelic session without sexual energy coming up? And I think his point was no, you can’t, and it’s kind of just something that you have to deal with. And are you mature enough to be able to have that restraint in sessions? A lot of people aren’t. I’ve certainly felt plenty of that. Breathwork, psychedelic sessions, festivals, concerts, the works. It’s everywhere. As soon as people are amplified, sexuality’s amplified and it can throw a big wrench in things.” -Joe
“What does the FDA tell us we should eat? What does science in 2021 tell us we should eat? What are doctors telling their patients [about] how to eat? Is it based on industry-manipulated science from 20, 30, 40 years ago? Or is it based on 2021 data? When doctors are suggesting a Mediterranean diet, that’s based on data. When they’re suggesting FDA-approved food pyramid stuff, that’s just an industry scam, and that’s pretty well documented. These are problems. When your profession has been manipulated more than once by industry, there’s going to be a reason why people don’t want to believe you.” -Joe “What is the agenda here with some of these companies? Do they just want to come in and make billions of dollars and they don’t give two shits about us? It’s all about the money? Or, are some of these companies actually really wanting to help and it just takes a massive amount of capital to do research and to produce these molecules and medicines to get out to the public and to create the systems that we need to properly support people moving forward?” -Kyle
Sacred psychedelic plant medicines are increasingly entering the Western mainstream, but is it cultural appropriation?
From the medicinal and ceremonial use of mescaline-containing plants by the Indigenous peoples of Mexico thousands of years ago, to the brewing of ayahuasca by several Indigenous groups in the Amazon today, entheogens have been a part of the cultural heritage of these communities in ways that Western society is just starting to understand.
Because there are significant differences in the ways these plants have been used historically and the way Western society is integrating them, let’s take a brief look at both approaches.
Indigenous Uses of Sacred Plant Medicines and Traditions
Various Indigenous cultures have used medicinal plants with psychoactive properties for hundreds of years including the Mazatec and Huichol of Mexico, Native North Americans, tribes in Africa, and Indigenous groups in the Amazon. The uses of these plants vary from culture to culture, but have a few commonalities when it comes to their healing purposes. For most, there is a general belief in their sacredness and spiritual properties.
“Plants, in general, have been used for ceremony, food, and utilitarian purposes. Sacred plant medicines were always used in ceremonies and never used for recreational purposes. Plants were placed on this earth to heal humanity as I understand it,” Belinda Eriacho, Native American Healer, tells Psychedelics Today. “In my own experiences, these sacred plant medicines have helped me to heal intergenerational trauma, to find peace with deceased loved ones, and to look at my own life and improve many areas of [it].”
When it comes to ayahuasca, Indigenous peoples from Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, and Ecuador have used the brew in their sacred rituals for many years. It served and continues to serve as a basis for the establishment of different spiritual traditions by these peoples. They hold the vine in high regard and believe it can facilitate the perception of the complexity of the natural world and human creation.
Similarly, the consumption of peyote in sacred rituals allowed the Huicholes and the Tarahumaras of Mexico to come into contact with divine beings or ancestors and to cure various diseases. To this day, peyote has also been adopted by several Native American peoples. They see peyote as a gift from the creator, and a direct communication channel with the “Great Spirit”.
These cultures have preserved rituals and sacred medicines but have also gone through extreme hardships in order to do so. Many Indigenous spiritual practices in Mexico were severely persecuted and banned during the Spanish Inquisition, and hundreds of thousands of natives were brutally murdered. Many other Indigenous communities in the Americas faced the same barbarities during colonization, having their codices destroyed and much of their ceremonial knowledge lost.
Western Uses of Plant Medicines
In the Western world, the use of psychedelic plant medicine can also be traced for thousands of years. A few examples are The Eleusinian Mysteries, the most famous of the secret religious rites of ancient Greece that involved ceremonies with psychoactive plants. Furthermore, Indigenous peoples of Siberia and the Sámi people of Northern Europe used Amanita Muscaria mushrooms in their sacred traditions.
Many medicinal plants have found their way into numerous products that the pharmaceutical industry sells today to treat a variety of diseases and health conditions, from aspirin derived from willow tree bark, to the current growing interest in entheogens for therapy and the possibility to revolutionize global mental health.
Scientists have been carrying out research for decades on psychedelic plants for their chemical properties and pharmaceutical potential. In this model of Western medicine, science seeks to understand these substances simply as chemical compounds detached from their ethnobotanical origin.
Adapting the uses of sacred psychedelic plants to Western medicine brings the advantage of making them accessible to people who can benefit tremendously from their properties on a global scale. In recent years, research into psychedelics has demonstrated their potential to address disorders that have proved difficult to treat including depression, anxiety, chemical dependency, and post-traumatic stress disorders.
But in reality, there is a suspicion that dominating the market is more important than addressing the mental health crisis. For instance, we are currently witnessing a debate on whether it’s ethical for companies such as COMPASS Pathways to try and monopolize the psychedelic industry with their patent strategy.
Additionally, in the past few years, the New Age spirituality movement has merged with positive psychology and the wellness industry, bringing many to seek healing, transcendental experiences, and self-improvement through entheogens. For many, these plants are the catalyst of positive life changes and are also revered with respect. However, there is concern that some are engaging in ceremonies so often that “spiritual bypassing” is now a recurring theme in psychedelic community discussions.
“I find it interesting how often I hear stories of people doing ceremony [using sacred plant medicines] every weekend. In many indigenous cultures, you were blessed to have one ceremony in your lifetime,” says Eriacho. “I would suggest that if individuals are finding that they need to use these plant medicines every weekend then (1) they are not taking the time to fully integrate into the experiences shown to them, and (2) these plant medicine(s) are not working for them.”
This high demand and constant search are not without negative consequences. Issues related to cultural appropriation, sustainability, and the commercialization of spirituality are often ignored by Westerners while engaging in such frequent ceremonies and spiritual tourism when they should be taken into greater consideration.
What Is Cultural Appropriation?
To understand the meaning of “cultural appropriation”, we need to understand the meaning of “appropriation” and ”culture” on an individual basis. We can define culture as the set of practices, symbols, and values that a specific group shares. For example, tattoos are an important symbol for many Indigenous cultures, as they are an essential part of the historical constitution of the groups to which they belong.
On the other hand, appropriation is the act of taking for oneself a certain element without the owner’s consent. So cultural appropriation would be the action of adopting elements of a culture to which you don’t belong without consent. An important detail to remember is this becomes problematic when it involves a power relationship. For example, it’s cultural appropriation when a culture which has historically been suppressed and marginalized has its elements stolen and its meanings erased by another culture that has dominated it.
Cultural appropriation contributes to the maintenance of structural racism in our society and the continuity of different stereotypes about cultures. But we must not forget that individuals appropriating a culture are just symptoms of a much larger problem. A capitalist system that aims for profit and uses extractivism (the exploitation of natural resources on a massive scale generating significant economic profits for a powerful few) to transform a community’s culture into a product but does not value the people whose culture it belongs to, is the real problem that needs addressing.
In the context of medicinal psychedelic plants and fungi, cultural appropriation may manifest itself in different ways. An example was the bioprospecting (the practice of searching for botanical miracle cures) of psilocybin mushrooms out of their Oaxacan context at the end of the 1950s by R. Gordon Wasson. And more recently, cases of “neo shamans” offering ceremonies they label “authentic” without years of experience and a real understanding of the cultures to which these ceremonies belong, are also examples of cultural appropriation.
The Answer? Awareness, Balance and Respect
There is a growing tendency to commodify these substances without giving back to the communities who have held this knowledge for centuries at their own risk. For example, who is really benefiting from expensive retreats in the Amazon jungle? Additionally, the development of new treatments with synthetic derivatives of these substances will reach the market through pharmaceutical patents without properly recognizing traditional knowledge.
For Indigenous people throughout the world, the commercialization of their spirituality is just one of many daily challenges embedded in larger societal struggles. Western engagement with Indigenous spiritual traditions often contributes to a false romanticization of these communities’ situations; it can even feel like an erasure of the injustices that they have experienced in the past, and continue to experience to this day. Indigenous people have to fight daily for the preservation of their lands, their languages, and their cultures. In fact, many continue to be murdered for standing up for their rights. As psychedelic enthusiasts, we have the responsibility to bring awareness to these dynamics.
“While psychedelic plant medicines still have most of their potential still to be taped into for the benefit of society, contemporary psychedelic studies are at risk of replicating harmful colonial behavior with the territories and communities from which the plants originate,” writes anthropologist, Paloma David, in her forthcoming publication, “Decolonizing Psychedelic Studies: The Case of Ayahuasca”. “A decolonial approach is essential to the current renaissance as failing to recognize indigenous perspectives as equally valuable to the discussion in the appropriate use of these substances only contributes to deepening the colonial wound in which these plants are interwoven.”
Will psychedelics be reduced to high-class wellness, healthcare, or self-optimization products that are only accessible for those who can afford the steep price tag while the people that carried this traditional knowledge are excluded from the market? As we are about to enter the era of psychedelic capitalism, it’s important for us to remember that balance can be achieved if we acknowledge that respect is crucial for any relationship.
We need to look at what we are doing when it comes to sacred plant medicine, how we are doing it, and what impact our actions have on other communities around the world. There needs to be an effort to educate ourselves in order to comprehend Indigenous paradigms, and the effect of their loss of languages, land, culture, and knowledge. As we begin to better understand spiritual identity and sacred reciprocity, we can start making an effort to no longer let Indigenous peoples and their cultures be seen as resources to be harvested.
“Through my lens as a Native American woman, when we are ill or when we seek balance in our lives through ceremony, we often look to our plant relatives for healing,” says Eriacho “There is a ritual or practice of utilizing these sacred beings. Before the plant is harvested, we are mindful about how much will be needed, and then explain to the plant why it is needed and for whom. This is done out of respect for the plant in exchange for its life. We offer tobacco, cornmeal as an act of appreciation. This is referred to as sacred reciprocity. We need to be respectful and reverent of these sacred plant medicines.”
So how can we protect and develop traditional ceremonies in a way that is useful and respectful of Indigenous communities? And how can we prevent the so-called psychedelic renaissance from exclusively benefiting non-Indigenous Western entrepreneurs?
When I speak to Paloma David about how we can move forward in a respectful fashion, she says, “Firstly, by being culturally humble in actively listening to Indigenous voices who are authorities on the use of psychedelic plant medicines and actively including them in the conversation on the appropriate use of these substances.”
“By being aware of our own cultural biases. By understanding that people’s making-sense of an ayahuasca experience is highly dependent on their cultural background, religious beliefs (or the lack thereof), and personal psychology.” David continues, “And secondly, by avoiding the harmful reproduction of colonial dynamics of appropriation, epistemicide and exploitation in which the Amazon rainforest and Indigenous knowledges are interwoven.”
Reflecting on these ethical dilemmas can offer us models for understanding and solving this continuing harmful and extractive economy. Another solution might be pointing out paths for fair and reciprocal reparation agreements with Indigenous communities.
More importantly, considering these issues make us question the colonial and racialized Western mentality that contributes to the continued delegitimization of Indigenous communities and their knowledge so we all can at least start asking ourselves: What are the true costs of our healing?
About the Author
Jessika Lagarde is a Brazilian storyteller, Earth and climate activist, and Women On Psychedelics co-Founder. Women On Psychedelics is an educational platform that advocates for the end of the stigmatization around women’s mental health and substance use, and the normalization of the use of psychedelics for its therapeutic potential and healing capacities. Jessika’s environmental work and psychedelic path have made her more aware not only of the crisis of our planet but also of how human disconnection is a direct cause of it. All of her work is informed in taking action in a way that serves the Earth and our human collective, in hopes of mobilizing inner healing towards outer action.
In this episode, Joe interviews philosopher, author, and assistant professor in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco: Matthew D. Segall, Ph.D.
Segall discusses the relationship between consciousness and neuroscience: how science is helpful, but ultimately amounts to just one of many different tools towards describing consciousness (not truly understanding it), and how science, philosophy, and religion need to focus on their specialties but also work together towards better defining the human experience. And he talks about the importance of philosophy in trying to make sense of non-ordinary states of consciousness.
As this is a very back-and-forth, philosophically-based conversation, they talk about a lot more: William James, David Ray Griffin’s concept of “hardcore common sense presuppositions,” Richard Dawkins, scientism, positivism, how we’re slowly thinning the line between technology and humanity, Timothy Leary and whether or not anyone really “dropped out,” German idealism, how capitalism co-opts everything, John Cobb, Alfred North Whitehead, Universal Basic Income, the death denial in capitalist life, and how to use the relationship between the internet and capitalism to improve society.
Notable Quotes
“The thing about capitalism is that it lives inside each of us at the level of our desires and our drives because we’ve been shaped by it. So we can’t pretend like it’s this big, bad monster out there that other people believe in. The problem with capitalism is that it’s not just a worldview you decide to believe in or not; it is the very structure, again, of your desires and your sense of identity. It’s inside of you.”
“They say cannabis causes problems with motivation. Well yea, once you see through the value structure of our society, you lose motivation to participate because it’s no longer appetizing to you to engage in the rat race.”
“Fifty years later, after Leary was saying ‘Turn on, tune in, and drop out’, a lot of people thought that they followed his instructions, but again, capitalism co-opted the whole hippie movement, and by the 90s, they were selling Che Guevera t-shirts at the shopping mall and Apple was using the Beatles to sell computers.”
“The way that liberals tend to think about these questions [is that] they get really mad at Facebook for being biased in what ads they allow and not censoring certain things and selling ads to Russians and stuff. …A publicly traded corporation has one purpose: to maximize shareholder profits. And that’s the business model for Facebook, and so they’ll take money from anyone who wants to sell ads. They’re a private company. They’re not a public utility that has anywhere in its corporate charter as part of its mission: ‘improving civil society’ or ‘helping America maintain its democracy.’ Why would we expect a private corporation to do that? There’s no incentive in capitalism for that. And yet we get mad and blame Mark Zuckerberg. Why aren’t we blaming capitalism? That’s where the source code for this problem is.”
“Psychedelics aren’t necessarily going to wake us up, but I think that’s why we need philosophy. These substances and these experiences need to be contained within a meaningful story and a meaningful theory of reality so that we can make sense of what we’re experiencing and integrate it, and not only come out of those experiences with a profound sense of what’s wrong with our society, but with at least a good idea for what we’d like instead.”
Matthew D. Segall, PhD, is assistant professor in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, where he teaches courses primarily on German Idealism and Alfred North Whitehead’s process philosophy. He is the author of Physics of the World-Soul: Whitehead’s Adventure in Cosmology (2021) and has published journal articles and book chapters on a wide range of topics including panpsychist metaphysics, media theory, the philosophy of biology, the evolution of religion, and psychedelics. He blogs regularly at footnotes2plato.com. His current research focuses on the panpsychist turn in contemporary philosophy of mind and its implications for the scientific study of the origins of life and consciousness.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, it’s a crew of two again, but this week, it’s the “Jersey Boys”: Kyle and David.
They first have an in-depth conversation about depth psychology (yes, I meant to do that), discussing James Hillman, the idea of soul existing in everything, the different ways one can connect more with their mind, the difference between dark and golden shadows, and how psychiatry is thankfully moving more towards an emotional-based, transdisciplinary model. And they ask some great questions: How could science explain synchronicity? How does one interact with an archetype? How do you measure the soul? When you hear a song and are instantly taken back to a memory and feeling (and even a smell) from the past: How on earth do you measure that?
They then discuss the DEA and its reach: What should the DEA’s power and focus be and how does it relate to both the Right to Try Act, seen through attorney Kathryn L. Tucker and two patients requesting end-of-life psilocybin, and in the DEA’s denial of Soul Quest’s religious freedom exemption application? In an era when classic, mainstream religion is slowly being replaced by more freeform spirituality, what authority does the DEA have to decide what is religious or not, and why do they still use their antiquated exemption policy?
And they also discuss more progress in law, particularly in the Northeast: Massachusetts lawmakers discussing a bill to create a psychedelic legalization task force (that will also look at pardons for past convictions), and Pennsylvania working on legislation to authorize the clinical study of psilocybin, with a focus on something which massive corporations and the DEA pay very little attention: cost-benefit optimization.
Notable Quotes
“[It’s] become too analytical and too cognitive. We’re trying to always make sense of the image or the archetype vs. what does it feel like to feel that image? What does it feel like to embody that archetype?” -Kyle
“I love that you’re using the word ‘love’ as an important emotional energy to give to those dark parts of our shadow, hopefully to transform it into a more golden shade of our shadow. Because we’ve become so starved of love inside and we have, I think, just so much blame and stuckness from our past.” -David
“It’s great that we’re bringing attention, because it does kind of act as a catalyst. I think we’ve spoken about Right to Try, we’ve spoken about religious liberty, we’re speaking here about state-level and DEA and FDA- each of these [are] different pathways of changing the law and of giving accessibility. There’s going to be a range of options when it actually does settle down, and it’s great that there’s just more and more of this happening. …We’re seeing this really overwhelming, powerful message that this has to happen soon and that it will happen soon.” -David
Our regular legal contributor explains why the DEA denied the ayahuasca church Soul Quest’s religious freedom exemption application, and how the DEA may be overstepping its role.
To explain what happened between the DEA and Soul Quest, we first need to step back and start from the very beginning. Our story begins with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), a sub-agency of the US Department of Justice, itself an agency of the Executive Branch. The DEA serves as legal gatekeeper of scheduled substances under the Federal Controlled Substances Act, including ayahuasca which contains dimethyltryptamine (DMT), a Schedule 1 substance. Although Schedule 1 substances are generally forbidden, their manufacture and use are permitted for licensed scientific research and as sacrament in sincere religious practice. In fact, there are United States Supreme Court cases that have recognized the First Amendment protected use of psychedelic substances, such as ayahuasca and peyote, in religious practices.
Against this backdrop, the DEA asserts jurisdiction over access and importation of Schedule 1 substances. For religious users, the DEA requires all religiously inclined importers, manufacturers, and users of Schedule 1 substances to first seek DEA exemption (meaning: acknowledgment and permission) before being allowed to import or to access such drugs. The DEA even published an exemption application and requires all parties seeking exemption to provide a raft of data, substantial disclosures, interviews, among other requirements, signed and sworn under oath, attesting to the possession and use of Schedule 1 substances.
In an effort to comply with the DEA Soul Quest Church of Mother Earth, Inc. submitted a request for religious exemption to use ayahuasca as a sacrament in 2017. It wanted to assure its congregants and officiants would be protected from further and future investigation and interdiction by the DEA, which posed a continuing threat of intervention and prevention of Soul Quest’s ayahuasca importation.
Under attorney letterhead, Soul Quest’s request sought exemption from application of the Controlled Substances Act in its totality—in other words, Soul Quest was seeking the ability to import, possess, manufacture and administer ayahuasca, all on premise of religious freedom:
“…request for a religious-based exemption by Soul Quest Church of Mother Earth, Inc., d/b/a, Soul Quest Ayahuasca Church of Mother Earth Retreat & Wellness Center (“Soul Quest”) to the provisions of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C. § 801, et seq., specifically as it pertains to the ritual use by Soul Quest of ayahuasca for its sacramental activities. Soul Quest asserts its eligibility for such an exemption, pursuant to the United States Supreme Court’s decision in 0 Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao Do Vegetal v. Gonzalez, 546 U.S. 418 (2006) (“Gonzalez”), and the provisions of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, 42 U.S.C. §§ 2000bb, et seq., (“RFRA”).”
In support of its First Amendment and Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) rights, Soul Quest provided a variety of organization records and information, including bylaws, articles of faith, dietary provisions, mission statement, safety and security protocols, among other requirements. Several church members also sat for extensive interviews with DEA agents.
The DEA’s Denial of Soul Quest
Disappointingly, albeit not surprisingly, the DEA took the better part of four years to come to a decision: application denied.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
It is important to make a clear distinction here that the First Amendment does not grant religious freedom. Rather, it acknowledges its preexistence. The US Constitution presupposes religious freedom existed before nationhood and that the innate right would be forever protected from government intrusion through the guarantee provided for in the First Amendment. In this sense, the First Amendment is a brake on governmental regulatory power. But this does not mean the government cannot regulate. It can. But, when those regulations intersect religious belief or practice, the borders of Constitutional right can sometimes be ambiguous and require a court ruling. That is where the Federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act comes into play. It assures that the burden is always on the government to prove that its religion-impacting regulation serves a compelling governmental interest and is being enforced by the least restrictive means. To this end, the DEA’s denial letter actually does a fine job of summarizing the RFRA standard. But for reasons explained a little further below, the DEA is misinterpreting its position in the RFRA analysis flow:
“According to RFRA, the “Government shall not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion” unless the Government can demonstrate “that application of the burden to the person (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.” 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1; AG Memorandum at 3. To establish a prima facie case for an exemption from the CSA under RFRA, a claimant must demonstrate that application of the CSA’s prohibitions with respect to a specific controlled substance would (1) substantially burden, (2) religious exercise (as opposed to a philosophy or way of life), (3) based on a belief that is sincerely held by the claimant. 0 Centro, 546 U.S. at 428. Once the claimant has established these threshold requirements, the burden shifts to the government to demonstrate that the challenged prohibition furthers a compelling governmental interest by the least restrictive means. This “compelling interest test” must be satisfied through application of the CSA to the particular claimant who alleges that a sincere exercise of religion is being substantially burdened. Id. at 430-31.”
Soul Quest is in litigation with the DEA over the exemption denial and is challenging the DEA’s determinations, seeking to enjoin the government agency’s continuing interdictions of its religious practices. Whatever facts the DEA disbelieved or questioned will ultimately be put to a judge (if the case survives to an evidentiary hearing).
Not only does Soul Quest get to challenge the DEA’s application of the facts, but Soul Quest also gets to challenge how the DEA applies the law. In this regard, any psychedelic religious group would be right in thinking to attack the process. That is, just because the DEA says it gets to decide what a religion is, does not necessarily mean the DEA actually has that authority. Likewise, just because the DEA says its policy of wholesale refusal to grant importation exemption is the “least restrictive means” does not mean it is.
In other words, a psychedelic religion seeking to challenge the DEA’s assumptions should not simply let the DEA dictate or frame the issues. Why? Because the DEA has it wrong. Let’s walk through the analysis.
Imagine you just asked (not applied – just asked) for exemption. The DEA, under its current policies, would presuppose it is not dealing with a religion or a religious group. [Why?] The DEA would deny the exemption. [Why?] The DEA would request you fill out its forms. [Why?] Provide a raft of data. [Why?] Sit for interviews. [Why?] The DEA requests this on the premise that it is going to determine, amongst other things, if your group is a religion. [Why?] And the DEA will also determine if your practice is sincere. [Why?]
Consider this: The DEA investigates and makes its own determination on the validity of religion and the sincerity of its practice. If the DEA determines, as it did in Soul Quest’s instance, that your group is not a religion, or it determines your practice is insincere, it will deny you the exemption. But, from where does DEA, a police agency, derive this power? In what statute or appellate decision is the DEA’s espoused belief that it has the right to investigate and to certify religion in the United States found? Doesn’t the First Amendment demand that the DEA presume the religion is valid and its practitioners sincere? Wouldn’t anything less be an affront to the guaranteed protection of fundamental freedoms accorded by the First Amendment?
If imagination helps context, consider if the issue were Catholics having to prove both Catholicism and the sincerity of its practice to a police officer, as a precondition to import or to consume Eucharist wafers. This would be abhorrent to the First Amendment, would it not? Next, imagine that the same police officer approved Catholicism, but still denied the Eucharist because he found your practice of Catholicism insincere (your transgression: not being at Mass last Sunday). A police agency preventing access to Eucharist because of the officer’s arbitrary assessment would even more offend the First Amendment, would it not? Yet, this is present DEA policy. What’s worse, the DEA does this with no objective standards.
Readers must understand, the DEA absolutely has a role to play in the nation’s drug regulatory scheme. It likewise does properly involve itself in scheduled substance importation and tracking. In this context, contact between the DEA and religious groups engaged in the importation of psychedelic sacrament is neither unexpected nor unwelcomed. For example, pharmaceutical companies and medical practitioners are well acquainted with the paperwork and practices that come with the importation and storage of scheduled substances. But those are, compared to assessing religion, very mechanical and objective functions for the agency. Religion is far too ephemeral and Constitutionally protected for a police agency to engage without clear parameters and metrics. And that is the point, even assuming the DEA were authorized to assess religion, it would still need objective metrics, of which it presently has none. In the absence of objective standards, its decisions on religion would be (and are) subjective and applied unequally.
Even if somehow the practice of DEA religious assessment were deemed First Amendment compliant, the DEA would still then have to contend with the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses of the Constitution, two places where subjectivity combined with government intrusion have not fared well. If the DEA does not have published objective standards, then every investigation it conducts into religion is by definition subjective. In every one of those cases, the decisions will be made (and presently are being made) by field agents with no training in religious practices or theology—cops arbitrarily approving and disapproving religions.
This may seem odd, but the DEA being mired in the religion question is a little not its fault. The DEA was created by President Nixon to assist in enforcement of the new Controlled Substances Act, but it was never given instruction or authority over religion. Making matters more complicated, although it sets many of its own policies, the DEA answers to the United States Department of Justice (USDOJ), and neither have ever put forth a cogent and logical policy on religious exemption. The favorable ayahuasca cases, especially the 2006 case, Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, 546 U.S. 418 (2006), caught the DEA off guard, but it never put in the time to work through the problem.
There is a single solution that solves both the problem of helping the DEA to avoid having to act as religious police and helping to arrive at the true least restrictive means to effectuate the DEA’s legitimate governmental interest of preventing diversion of controlled substances outside of the comprehensive regulatory scheme established by Congress. And, no, total prohibition as the DEA advocates is not the solution. Rather, the DEA should abandon its entire exemption policy.
Instead, the DEA should reduce its religious assessments to no more than requiring an attestation of religious intention and sincerity of belief, signed under oath and under penalty of perjury (the DEA could still mandate inspection of storage facilities and other non-religious aspects). The attestation would include details like: name, address, phone number, and other neutral data, much like what pharmaceutical companies or medical professionals provide.
Under this practice, the DEA’s need to track and verify would remain satisfied. Upon exchange of the attestation, the DEA should release the sacrament to the applicant. If the DEA has doubts, it then can refer cases to the US Department of Justice for its exercise of proper discretion, including possible investigation. If things are found inaccurate from the attestation, USDOJ would remain free to charge the parties involved (plus charge a bonus felony for the false attestation). Such an arrangement would keep the DEA out of religion, while still enabling the agency to function. Plus, attestation is a far less restrictive means than the DEA’s current policy of wholesale refusal.
A simple attestation policy (coupled with the DEA’s normal investigatory functions) is what RFRA requires—a burden on the government, not on the religion. Such a practice follows the proper flow of a RFRA analysis: It presupposes religious practice, places the burden on the government to prove otherwise, protects the individual religious right even during the investigation, and only resolves in favor of the government if the government proves its case as RFRA requires.
Will Soul Quest or any other psychedelic religious group argue these points to a court engaged in reviewing DEA policy? We will have to wait to see. Since there are a few psychedelic religion cases pending in various US courts at the moment, perhaps the time is coming.
In this episode, Joe interviews freelance writer Jasmine Virdi, who, in addition to writing for Chacruna and Lucid News, has been writing for us for the last year and a half.
She tells the story of her path toward becoming a psychedelic-focused writer: An early interest in mysticism to a high-dose solo psilocybin experience, to volunteering with David Luke at a retreat in Wales, to eventually interning at the Institute of Ecotechnics, which led her to Synergetic Press. They talk about peyote conservation and the IPCI, 5-MeO-DMT and the protection of toads, how ayahuasca churches and facilitators have dealt with Covid, and the concept of plant medicines protecting people from Covid and other diseases.
They also talk about neurodivergence and how psychedelics could help autistic individuals, the environmental impact of having kids, panpsychism, Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia, how language has changed us, the concept of “slow is smooth,” perennialism, the Mystical Experience Questionnaire, and more.
Notable Quotes
“Culture moves so fast nowadays. …We need to move at the pace of nature in order to align ourselves with its values.”
“A general trend among facilitators is that they had noticed [that] throughout Covid, they actually felt the demand for ayahuasca ceremonies increasing as opposed to decreasing. …I think it kind of speaks to the fact that the world is in dire need of healing, and also, maybe people are connected with a sense of what they really value and want to move towards when they’re confronted with their own mortality. And building community is now more important than ever, and I think a lot of people find community in plant medicine circles.” “I don’t think that psychedelics are the only answer or even the answer, but for me, I feel so passionate about them because they have been tools in turning me onto what I feel are greater parts of this reality.”
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer in the psychedelic space. Since 2018, she has been working for the independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany, and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine has written for Psychedelics Today, Chacruna Institute for Plant Medicines, Lucid News, Cosmic Sister, Psychable, and Microdosing Guru. She is currently pursuing an MSc in Spirituality, Consciousness, and Transpersonal Psychology at the Alef Trust with the future aim of working as a psychedelic practitioner. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, culturally sensitive, ethically-integral, and meaningful way.
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In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, the crew of five from last week has been whittled to two, with Joe and the new guy (David) getting into a discussion about cynicism, mysticism, and well-being.
They first look at Senate Bill 519 again, after a listener wrote in to correct them about their understanding of social-sharing and to suggest that they were too critical in last week’s episode. And they wonder: Have we, as a subculture, become so cynical that we can’t see any progress as good enough? Has the perfect too often become the enemy of the good?
They then discuss an article stressing the need to acknowledge and attempt to study the mystical (weird) part of psychedelics that can’t be measured by changes in neuroscience, with David telling us the story of his path to Psychedelics Today involving a near-death experience with a space heater, witnessing an exorcism, and a mushroom-inspired “experience of madness.”
And they talk about a lot more: A study that measured improvements in well-being and the difficulty in defining such an open concept (the word of the day is “eudaimonia”), the star-studded panel Joe moderated this week, Kabbalah, permaculture, and the idea of thinking outside of financial terms with different forms of capital.
Notable Quotes
“We have a choice. Do I stand my ground and do I insist on getting everything that I deserve, on insisting on the change that is right, on the change that is needed that we all know is what we deserve? Or do we make these political deals and compromises and concessions and sacrifices, again, just because it’s a step in the right direction?” -David
“How do we have faith in all these various institutions that have done so much really gross stuff, and continue to participate in this democracy that doesn’t feel that way sometimes? And that’s the cynicism that I feel regularly, but then I go, “Okay, I can feel cynical, but the only way to make good change is to be involved.’” -Joe
“If capitalism can be used (and its meeting point with psychedelics) to create a model that enables mass scaling, and safe, responsible use, and accessibility to psychedelics, because of the mass scale of mental illness and ontological crisis and desperation; well, okay, then maybe that’s a pill worth taking. Because boy, do we need something right now that’s not just a Xanax or a Prozac or a 45-minute talk session. We need more than that on an individual and societal level. So I’d be willing to kind of dance with the devil of hyper-capitalism if it actually enables that kind of merging of minds to happen.” -David
“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
-C.G. Jung
This is the first article in a series called Psychedelics in Depth, in which we will explore the many ways that depth and Jungian psychology intersect with the many multicolored permutations of the psychedelic experience.
Our intention is to provide readers with a foundational understanding of the depth psychological tradition, define important terms like shadow or archetype, and explore how this way of interfacing with the psyche can inform psychedelic work for both facilitators and psychonauts alike.
There is a high likelihood we may encounter a mythical beast or two along the way as well. Thanks for being here. Onwards.
When you think about psychology, what images come to mind? A person laying down on a couch, talking about their mother? A man with a thick European accent, cryptically jotting down someone’s dreams? Ink blot tests? Cigars?
Believe it or not, all of these clichés come from the tradition of depth psychology. Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung, who’s work we will examine later, were both depth psychologists. But before we get any further, let’s take the advice given to young Alice during her first bleary steps into Wonderland, and begin at the beginning.
What Is Depth Psychology?
Traditionally, depth psychology was any method of psychoanalytic work which focused on the unconscious. Today, the term “depth” is often used as a shorthand for the various permutations of thought influenced by Carl Jung, which can include everything from mythology, to archetypal astrology, to Internal Family Systems Therapy.
Despite Jung’s enduring association with the term, “depth psychology” was actually coined in the early 20th century by one of his colleagues, the Swiss psychoanalyst Eugen Bleuler, who also coined the term schizophrenia.
Depth psychology differs from other schools of psychology (behavioral, cognitive, humanistic, etc.) in that it takes the unconsciousas the primary driving force on our behaviors and emotions. Because it is itself unconscious, the unconscious cannot be known by our usual, logical, and rational ways of “knowing.”
Therefore, depth psychology employs the use of symbols, images, and metaphors to translate the language of the psyche, which historically was approached through dreams and patterns in mythology. Working with myth is one of the hallmarks of the “depth approach,” and clearly distinguishes this field of psychology from others.
Yet it is important to remember that in depth psychology, symbols and images are always used to describe something “as if,” and not as literal representations. This is one of the most important tenets of depth psychology: Images and symbols are used by the psyche to reference something deeper and likely unknown, yet something that our psyche yearns for us to discover. In true depth psychology, there is always space for the unknown.
The etymological roots of the word psychology can be understood as “the way into” or “the study of the soul.” Depth psychology emphasizes this ineffable notion of the soul, and continually places this unknowable facet of the human experience at its core. What this means in practical terms is a focus on the most important and vexing issues which have accompanied humanity since the dawn of time: birth, death, love, loss, mystery, purpose, growth, decay, and the meaning of it all. The very things which make us human.
Who Is Carl Jung?
Carl Gustav (C.G.) Jung (1875-1961) was a Swiss psychiatrist who helped shape psychology into the discipline we know today. His method of understanding the psyche, which he termed analytical psychology, forms what is now popularly called “Jungian psychology.”
For many years, Jung was slated to become Sigmund Freud’s “crowned prince” and protege, but their paths diverged in 1912 over disagreements as to the reality of the ‘collective unconscious,’ which Frued summarily rejected. Jung’s insistence that there is an ancient, unknowable, species-wide repository of psychic information which informs the human experience flew in the face of Freud’s increasingly dogmatic theories, which focused on sex and pleasure as the driving forces behind all human behavior.
This break led Jung into a long period of introspection which he termed his “confrontation with the unconscious,” during which he delved deep into his own psyche and imagination. Eventually, this process resulted in his detailed map and terminology of the psyche, his practice of active imagination, as well as The Red Book, and the recently published, Black Books.
Jung employed a variety of terms to describe his understanding of the psyche and all of the mysterious dynamics he observed within his patients (especially those suffering from severe schizophrenia), and within himself. Concepts such as the collective unconscious, archetypes, the shadow, anima, synchronicity, individuation, and the Self, are all terms that Jung coined and wrote about extensively. They are also topics we discuss in our course that explores psychedelics and depth psychology, Imagination as Revelation: The Psychedelic Experience in the Light Jungian Psychology.
Yet again, it bears repeating that these terms are to be understood as mere symbols or points on a map, referring to places or dynamics within the psyche that our conscious mind struggles to grasp. Jung himself said, “Theories in psychology are the very devil. It is true that we need certain points of view for orienting… but they should always be regarded as mere auxiliary concepts that can be laid aside at any time.”
Depth Psychology and Popular Culture
While the mainstream psychological establishment has eschewed the work of Jung for many decades, his legacy informs our collective imagination and culture in profound ways, perhaps more than any other figure in the history of psychology.
Mythologist Joseph Campbell drew deeply from Jung’s work, and based many of his ideas of The Hero’s Journeyon Jung’s theories. George Lucas consulted with Campbell while creating Star Wars, arguably one of the most significant film series of all time. The poet Robert Bly mentions Jung throughout his book Iron John, which paved the way for the body of work that is now called “men’s work.” Jungian analyst and author Clarissa Pinkola Estes, in her enduring text, Women Who Run With the Wolves, worked directly with Jungian concepts to address aspects of the feminine psyche.
Any reference to ‘archetypes’ or something being ‘archetypal’ plainly invokes Jung and his work on these illusive, yet omnipresent patterns of being. The shadow, or ‘shadow work,’ which has become something of a buzzword in psychedelics in recent years, conjures Jung as well. We have a whole course that examines Jung’s concepts of the shadow, the difference between the ‘Golden’ and ‘Dark’ shadow, and other related issues called, Psychedelics and the Shadow: Exploring the Shadow Side of Psychedelia.
Similarly, Jung also coined the term ‘synchronicity,’ which could be defined as a meaningful coincidence, and was a phenomenon that captivated him for decades. Lastly, any reference to ‘the collective,’ harkens to Jung’s notions of the ‘collective unconscious,’ which is a foundational aspect of his psychological model, and which we’ll address in our next article in this “Psychedelics in Depth” series.
Despite all of these enduring contributions, Jung still remains somewhat of a marginal figure. There are a multitude of reasons for this, a major one being that his theories escape empirical measurement, and eventually lead one outside the rational-materialist worldview we now call “science.” Mention Jung’s name in most mainstream psychology degree programs and the odds are you will be met with skepticism.
Subversion and marginality have arguably always been at the core of depth psychology. Dreams themselves exist at the margins of our consciousness, and can often direct our attention to marginal areas of our psyche which we would rather not see. Concepts such as the anima/animus, which imply that every male has inside him a female soul (and vice-versa), directly subverts our culture’s basic understanding of gender. Archetypes reveal to us that our personal life story is not a unique, singular event, but rather, connected to a greater chain of human experiences.
Lastly, depth psychology’s pervasive insistence on the reality of the soul can be seen as a revolutionary act within a culture that seeks to actively deny the very existence of such a thing. The consequences of this denial can be seen within every great historical, interpersonal, and environmental tragedy perpetrated upon people and the planet across time.
Therefore, the significance of depth psychology extends far beyond the confines of the therapists’ office or the university lecture hall, and stretches out into the old growth forests, indigenous communities, and inner cities across the world.
Depth psychology is not just a school of psychology, but a lens through which to intimately perceive and meaningfully engage with the wider world.
Depth Psychology and Psychedelics
Depth psychology offers an immensely useful framework for approaching psychedelic work, both as a facilitator and a psychonaut. Stanislav Grof, pioneer of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and transpersonal psychology and one of our biggest influences here at Psychedelics Today, described the role that psychedelics play as a psychic “abreactive,” meaning that they bring to the surface whatever unconscious material has the most emotional charge. Seen from this lens, psychedelics, which often work directly with unconscious material, could therefore be seen as part and parcel to the larger field of depth psychology.
Interpreting the variety of imagery and experiences that psychedelics can evoke can easily be aided by a grounding in basic depth psychology, especially understanding the interplay between image, archetypes, and complexes. Facing and integrating one’s shadow is a central aspect of both Jung’s work and using the psychedelic experience for personal growth and healing.
Many worthwhile books have been written on the interplay between psychedelics and depth psychology, including Grof’s body of work, Confrontation with the Unconscious, and much of the work by Ann Shulgin,Timothy Leary and Ralph Metzner. Yet the interplay between depth psychology and psychedelics offers immense potential in the realms of research, therapeutic methodology, and integration—more so than I believe has been fully realized.
The history of psychedelic research is almost inseparable from the tradition of depth psychology. Stanislav Grof, mentioned above, as well as other early psychedelic researchers, approached their work from a depth psychological lens. Because of certain cultural shifts over the 20th century, current psychedelic research prioritizes quantitative and statistical analysis which can often overlook the highly personal and emotional aspects of the psychedelic experience.
Yet, depth psychology requires us to return to the real, troublesome, subjective experiences of the individual as its primary territory of work, and for this reason offers one of the most valuable lenses from which to view the psychedelic experience. Because, just like human beings, no two psychedelic journeys are alike, since they are in essence reflections of the multifaceted and endlessly mysterious inner world of the brave souls who dare to explore their own uncharted depths.
About the Author
Simon Yugler is a depth and psychedelic integration therapist based in Portland, OR with a masters (MA) in depth counseling psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. Weaving Jungian psychology, Internal Family Systems therapy, and mythology, Simon also draws on his diverse experiences learning from indigenous cultures around the world, including the Shipibo ayahuasca tradition. He has a background in experiential education, and has led immersive international journeys for young adults across 10 countries. He is passionate about initiation, men’s work, indigenous rights, decolonization, and helping his clients explore the liminal wilds of the soul. Find out more on his website and on Instagram , Twitter (@depth_medicine) or Facebook.
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
In this episode, Joe interviews Daniel Moler: author, artist, comic book creator, and sanctioned teacher of the Pachakuti Mesa Tradition (a form of Peruvian shamanism).
Moler talks about the Psychonaut Presents comic series he writes and illustrates, which delves into his experiences with consciousness exploration, most notably in his first ayahuasca experience and the subsequent experiences he’s had through his shamanic training. And he talks about his pathway to shamanism, the attention shamanism places on the act of service and bringing wisdom from the experience back into the world, and the importance of finding your flow and aligning with its current.
He discusses San Pedro: how much he loves it, how he uses it in conjunction with Singado, and how it enhances his facilitation work. And he talks about Alan Moore, the Kamasqa Curanderismo Tradition, Terence McKenna, Aleister Crowley, Chaos Magick, Rick Strassman, how Christian and Catholic-based iconography became a part of Indigenous traditions, and how the worlds of science and traditional Indigenous culture could learn from each other for the betterment of all.
Notable Quotes
“There are Christian shamans. There are Islamic shamans. There’s shamans from various types of pagan traditions. So it doesn’t have to be locked into this framework of: ‘Oh, it’s only Indigenous tribal peoples that have a shamanic framework.’ Because shamanism is just about having that direct experience with the world of soul and then expressing that, bringing that out into the world in a way that helps benefit the planet. There’s a lot of controversy around the word, but I’ve, over the years, just learned to kind of shun that. It’s the word we have right now. It’s what we’re using.”
“When you have found your soul’s purpose, you have found a way to operate in the universe where the universe works along with you to help align your life in the direction that you would like it to lead.”
“A vital component of shamanism is that everything has a consciousness. Everything is alive, and especially these medicines. They’re not tools. Some people refer to these as shamanic tools. That would be like referring to my wife as a tool, or to you as a tool in this conversation. You’re a consciousness and I’m a consciousness and we’re two people participating together.” “Don’t just follow some kind of ritual paradigm, because it may not work. You’ve got to do what works for you, so find a method and a formula that works. And you know it’s going to work and that it’s going to be valid for you because every time you do it, it works. You have repeated, repeatable results.”
Daniel Moler is an author, artist, and astral entrepreneur. He is writer, artist, and creator of the hit comic seriesPsychonaut Presents, the author ofShamanic Qabalah: A Mystical Path to Uniting the Tree of Life & the Great Work from Llewellyn Worldwide, as well as the psychedelic urban fantasyRED Mass, and the Terence McKenna guidebookMachine Elves 101. He has also made contributions in Ross Heaven’s bookCactus of Mystery: The Shamanic Powers of the Peruvian San Pedro Cactus andLlewellyn’s 2020, 2021, and 2022 Magical Almanacs, among numerous other articles in journals and magazines around the world. In April 2019, he was noted asAuthor of the Month by best-selling author and researcher Graham Hancock. Daniel is a sanctioned teacher of the Pachakuti Mesa Tradition, a form of Peruvian shamanism brought to the U.S. by respected curandero don Oscar Miro-Quesada. Visit Daniel online atdanielmolerweb.com.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe, Michelle, Kyle, and David are joined by pastNavigating Psychedelics student and Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience at McGill University, Manesh Girn.
Everyone was excited but also extremely confused about last week’s story on psilocybin inducing “rapid and persistent” growth in the dendritic spines of mice, so we thought it made a lot of sense to bring a friend on the show who understands this stuff and can explain it to those of us who don’t regularly study neuroscience. What are dendritic spines? What does “learned helplessness” mean? How about elevated excitatory neurotransmission? What is a “head twitch response”? Ketanserin? Girn thankfully explains it all and stays with the team for this week’s news.
They first review Michael Pollan’s recent op-ed in the New York Times titled, “How Should We Do Drugs Now?”, which unfortunately focused on medical and Indigenous-use as the only reasonable paths forward, and gets everyone questioning why drug use for pleasure isn’t viewed as therapeutic, where our responsibility lies as members of the media when it comes to drug safety, and how harm reduction and safety measures can increase stigma around drug use. They also talk about Senate Bill 519’s progress and the wrong turn its committee recently took in removing social-sharing from the bill, the normalization of DMT use (and the idea of “needing an escape”), and how Michelle is trying to meet aliens.
Notable Quotes
“In humans, how I think about it, is that the neuroplasticity just gives your brain more resources to encode the insights and the experiences that you go through. So you have this radical experience where you might have insight into your patterns, into your traumas, etc., but then in order to last in a lasting way in your brain, you need some degree of neuroplasticity and it’s kind of giving you the push there. I think they both synergize with each other. I think if you have this boost in neuroplasticity, you can really exploit and leverage it with conscious intention.” -Manesh
“I think a lot of folks are creating their own rituals which do ground them, and they don’t have to be appropriations of Indigenous culture or appropriations of the medical model. I think, for most folks, they’re kind of somewhere in the middle. I know my rituals look nothing like either of those approaches. …I just feel like this conversation is often forgetting what real people in real time are doing.” -Michelle
“People go to festivals or concerts and use these substances or use them in situations where there’s more social bonding happening, and doing it for that more pleasure [purpose]; why is that wrong? I’m just even thinking in terms of therapy. It’s like, ‘Oh, if we’re not digging into your biographical history or trauma, then what are we doing here?’ Can we bring pleasure into our human experience at times without feeling so guilty or some sort of shame around it?” -Kyle “I think 1/7th of the world’s population in 20 to 40 years will be a permanent migrant class with no real home. We’ve got some work to do. Do we really want to keep locking people up for cocaine when we could be solving real problems here? …How dangerous is MDMA? It’s about as dangerous as riding a horse. Why do we care so much? LSD and psilocybin? Safest drugs ever, according to David Nutt. What are we doing?” -Joe
Manesh is a Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience at McGill University and has been lead or co-author on over a dozen scientific publications and book chapters on topics including psychedelics, meditation, mind-wandering, and the default-mode network. His PhD dissertation focuses on the default-mode network and he is also conducting research on the brain mechanisms underlying LSD, psilocybin, and DMT in collaboration with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris and others from the Imperial College London Center for Psychedelic Research. In his free time, he also runs a YouTube channel, The Psychedelic Scientist, where he discusses the latest findings in psychedelic science in an easy to understand, but non-superficial form.
In this episode, Joe interviews psychologist and adjunct professor at Capella University, Dr. Sean Hinton.
Hinton talks about his early days at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology (now Sophia University) and his realization of how common numinous experiences are and how seldom people talked about them at the time. And he talks about how so many research studies just reinforce what we already know or want to further prove, existentialism and existential psychologist Rollo May, and Timothy Leary and his cultural, non-medicalized approach to research.
And he talks about a lot more in this very free-ranging conversation: Portugal and their model for legalization, James Fadiman, James Hillman, addiction, heroin, Norman Rockwell, LSD, John Quincy Adams, microbreweries, William James, gun control, monotheism, and more!
But his main focus is what we do next if we get these substances rescheduled: How do we view integration outside the medical model? How do we view these tools anthropologically and sociologically and keep them from being solely medicalized? And how do we handle regulation as the “price we pay for civilization” without becoming progress-blocking bureaucrats?
Notable Quotes
“Consider the field a table. Now consider your half of the table as your half of the table and then divide that into quarters, and then divide that again, and when you get down to something that’s too small to put your plate on; that’s what you want to do your research on. It’s always a very, very small area of what is already known but hasn’t been illuminated sufficiently.”
“That’s the question: What kind of world are we going to live in? It’s fun to talk about trip stories and it’s fun to talk about the latest and greatest synthetic drugs and neuroscience, but what’s it really mean to the lives of those people who would like to have a more expansive, happier, content, paradisal life, as opposed to struggling through tyranny?” “That’s where the thinking went. It’s typical American privatism at its best. ‘You can’t show me the usefulness of it, [so] why should we pursue it?’ And usefulness means it makes money. American pragmatism is just a branch of capitalism.” “When you start confusing the roadmap to what the reality is, they’re two different things. It’s great to think of myself as a bunch of neurons and stuff like that. Well, that’s a great roadmap, but I’m sorry, what I’m experiencing is something that needs understanding, as Hillman would say. So how do we integrate this understanding part of ourselves with a society that’s cohesive enough to allow for those understandings, or open and unafraid? All the good stuff comes from places that are open and unafraid.”
Sean Hinton is a psychologist counseling individuals in their personal and spiritual growth, an executive consultant to business leaders, and a lecturer and graduate school instructor in psychology.
He often works with professionals in organizations to grow into their leadership roles in ways that both satisfies them in spirit and produces positive results in their organizational and personal life. He works with women and men in transition, stage of life challenges, and existential crisis of loss, life purpose or changing relationships.
He earned his PhD at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, and received an MBA in management from Pepperdine Graziadio School of Business and Management, an MA in education, and a MACP in clinical psychology.
How do you draw the line between a healthy escape and a dissociative disorder? And could dissociative psychedelics like ketamine play a part?
We live in a deeply interconnected world. From our ecosystems to our societies, the Earth is made up of living things held in dynamic relationships. We as humans are deeply woven into this fabric. But sometimes, all this connection can be too much to hold. Whether from acute trauma, overstimulation, or constant societal stress, our bodies have built-in intelligence that allows us to dissociate or disconnect from our current experience when we’ve reached our saturation point.
On the heels of the COVID-19 pandemic, the question of how we cope with and heal from traumatic experiences has been front of mind. I spoke with somatic practitioner, Claudia Cuentas, MA, MFT, and Psy.D., psychologist, ketamine specialist and founder of KRIYA (Ketamine Research Institute), Raquel Bennett, to discuss the psychology of dissociation, what happens when it becomes a disorder, the healing power of escapism, and where psychedelics like ketamine fit into the conversation.
Raquel Bennett, who has been studying therapeutic ketamine since 2002 and who teaches the Masterclass on Ketamine in our Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists course, put it this way: “There are different kinds of dissociation or disconnection, including dissociation from your body or bodily sensations; dissociation from your thoughts or awareness; and dissociation from your biographical history, identity, or sense of self.”
Claudia Cuentas explained it another way. “Dissociation is a physiological self protective response, and it is activated when the body feels saturated or overwhelmed by an input or by too much information at once. That information can come from an internal or external stimulus. Dissociation is our bodies’ ability to remove its attention from the present and take a break, pause and/or, hopefully, recalibrate back into presence. Children do it all the time. That gazing and daydreaming is self-regulating. It is an amazing regulatory system we have.”
While they may look the same from the outside, many experts say that dissociation is different from absent mindedness. Many of us can relate to driving home and not remembering the drive, or checking out during a meeting because we are distracted by something going on in our personal lives. Dissociation is a common experience, and not necessarily a cause for concern. The question is: Is dissociation or the dissociation patterns you have developed to cope with internal/external stressors interrupting your ability to enjoy life?
On top of this, the pressures of modern life can almost be too much to bear at times. We are inundated with unlimited newsfeeds and chaotic information overload in a way that no generation has ever been. What are embodied creatures like us meant to do with the realities of systemic injustice, climate catastrophe, and economic collapse, on top of personal concerns like relationships, mortgages, and health issues?
In response to these pressures, we’ve normalized a culture of disconnection. Checking out of life may become a habitual way of coping with the strain of daily life: binge watching TV or scrolling on social media. Gaming out. Numbing with drugs or alcohol. Swiping on Tinder. These are activities that put us in passive roles and don’t require our engaged presence or participation.
Tuning out itself isn’t necessarily problematic. When it comes as a response to overstimulation, it serves a purpose and then the person can return to present awareness naturally when they feel ready. However, this disconnection can sometimes happen involuntarily or becomes a default way of moving through life. Often, chronic dissociation comes as a result of acute or ongoing trauma.
For people living with dissociative states, this disconnection from one’s body, mind, emotions or identity can be distressing and have a major impact on relationships and quality of life. They may experience depersonalization (feeling as though they don’t control their body, thoughts or emotions) or derealization (a disruption in one’s perception of reality, as though the world is unreal, hazy or flat).
Dissociation can show up in a lot of ways: tuning out during a difficult conversation, personality changes, forgetting major memories or stretches of time, difficulty staying present during sex, or feeling unaware of one’s own body. Sometimes these episodes begin in response to overstimulation or an event that triggers traumatic memory or association.
I asked Cuentas how these disorders happen, and how they might be addressed.
“At times, we may feel that life is not that safe or that the present is not that safe. This is especially true when there has not been an ability to heal, digest and process past trauma and understand why an experience was so frightening or difficult. People don’t want to feel present because if they do, they will be overwhelmed by sensations associated with pain, sadness, overwhelm. The body sends a signal to the brain through the nervous system, and the brain and/orr the body disconnect from the present reality. So the mind says, I am going to release attention from the whole system so that you are here… but not here. I am going to keep you safe.. This way, you don’t have to feel the pain you have gone through.”
“Dissociative diagnoses arise when we are using this way of coping as an unconscious default,” she adds. “Sometimes people struggle because they aren’t feeling like themselves. Maybe everything is numb. Or they feel like they are witnessing a facade of somebody else. Most of the time, dissociative diagnoses are connected to intense, deep, unaddressed trauma from very early on stages of life.”
This questionnaire is a useful tool for distinguishing between normal and problematic dissociative experiences.
Could Somatic Practices & Dissociative Drugs Like Ketamine Be The Path Back?
According to Cuentas, the way to alleviate dissociative disorders is to increase one’s tolerance over time for sensations that may be uncomfortable or overwhelming, essentially moving through the trauma at a pace that’s comfortable and tolerable to the individual.
“We have to get beyond this self-protection mechanism that kicks in automatically. So how do we decode the experience to relieve the body from the automatic response in order to enjoy the present? If you keep unconsciously self protecting to not feel the pain, then you’re missing everything– joy, love, intimacy, all your senses. You turn off your ability to sense comfortable or uncomfortable experiences, like enjoying a sky full of colors, feeling the softness of your skin, hearing a song and go, ‘wow, I like that’. It’s numbing, and the person may not, at times, even realize.”
Finding pleasurable ways to exist in one’s body is an essential part of processing, healing, and moving through trauma. Many trauma therapists work with a particular focus on the body, known as “somatic” practices. This is essential because, although the mind can check in and out through dissociation, the body carries the load of a lifetime of experiences. Cuentas’ work focuses on the use of embodied approaches, like art, dance, music, drama and storytelling as healing modalities for families and communities.
Psychedelic substances may offer another path to doing this work. Part of the theory around why psychedelics help with trauma is related to capacity building. By promoting states of openness, they create opportunities for people to re-engage with painful or traumatic experiences and form new relationships to these memories.
Psilocybin and MDMA have received the most press in recent years, but ketamine has held a steady role as one of the only legal psychedelics clinicians can currently offer. It’s common to hear people speak about ketamine as a dissociative. I asked Bennett her thoughts on this classification.
“When you take ketamine, you may be dissociated from your body; in other words, the signals from your sensory input organs may be temporarily muted,” she says. “However, when ketamine is utilized in a physically and psychologically safe setting, people tend to be keenly aware of or connected with their own thoughts and internal images.”
The dissociation felt with ketamine is more physiological than psychological. I asked Cuentas to expand upon this. She explained that, based on a somatic perspective, it seems like ketamine temporarily disconnects the body and the mind, whereas the coping mechanism of dissociation can often disconnect people from their own consciousness as well.
“Seems like Ketamine can turn the body off so the mind doesn’t have to negotiate how to to keep the body safe or what to do with the body’s intense signals of stress, which are common during or after traumatic experiences,” says Cuentas. “So for a period of time, it may not have to navigate the usual intensity and discomfort. If this happens, the mind is released from its usual concerns/stressors, and its attention can possibly concentrate on other sensations or realms of awareness.”
“As the body experiences numbness or dissociation, it is still tracking the experience, but not reacting. When a body is affected by an anesthetic like Ketamine for therapeutic uses, it will put the body in a highly suggestible state,” Cuentas adds. “From a somatic perspective, there is a window of time as a person is coming back to feeling their body again— that is the moment of doing a lot of processing. I believe this is possibly the most effective way to work with ketamine. Whatever happens in this window of reconnection between unconsciousness and consciousness or body awareness, will be recorded in the body. You would have to be intentional because whatever you introduce in that state can have a great impact on your psyche.”
Feeling good is an essential part of our healing.
Returning To Safety From Dissociative Disorders
Dissociation is the human body’s way of trying to achieve safety. As we are unlearning automatic responses that don’t serve us, the need for a sense of safety is still present. How do we develop a sense of safety within ourselves when we can’t guarantee it in our external environment? Therapists refer to resourcing—tools that help people develop a higher tolerance for discomfort. In this way, we can stay in the present moment longer without needing to dissociate.
Especially for people from marginalized communities, creating microcosms of safety, even temporary ones, can be essential practice for dealing with life. These pods of comfort can come from affinity spaces, keeping a close inner circle, getting immersed in something you love, and for some people, exploring altered states.
In pursuit of safety, a natural response to triggering scenarios is to remove oneself from further harm. However, safety can’t necessarily be achieved in a societal context which is inherently unsafe for many people in our communities. Some people may feel they always have to be shut down or running to escape harm. For these folks, there is an even greater need for networks of support and practical tools that grow the ability to stay present. It can be empowering and freeing to stay present through a practice of pleasure, feeling the body’s sensations, and finding what feels positive and safe in the here and now.
When Dissociation Can Be a Positive
For those of us not dealing with chronic dissociation, the question to ask is whether we are habitually checking out from the present moment and if so, what shifts in these habits might help us have a more fulfilling quality of life. Perhaps instead of relying on screens or substances to wind down, we could incorporate activities that invite pleasurable presence: music, dance, breath work, meditation, meals, or the company of a loved one. It helps to view this as something to practice, rather than something to be good or bad at.
On the other hand, escapism isn’t always a bad thing. There is agency in choosing when and how to turn off the outside world for a while. In order to absorb the benefits of this freedom, dissociating needs to be something that is consciously chosen, rather than an automatic stress based response.
In some ways, escapism is a combination of dissociation and resourcing. Tuning out on purpose, or even altering one’s perception, can offer a healthy way to find rest and recovery from the concerns of daily life. It can also help us to remember what it is like to feel good and build capacity for pleasure. Feeling good is an essential part of our healing.
Grammy nominated singer Jhené Aiko often writes songs about the use of cannabis and psychedelics as medicine. As a mixed race woman of color, she poetically contrasts the peaceful haze of altered states and the harsh realities of the world outside.
She says it well in her hit, “Tryna Smoke”:
Life’s no fairytale, I know all too well/ Gotta plant the seed sometimes /Then you let it grow
Inhale, exhale some more/ Heaven in Hell/ If you know, you know/ That sh*t is beautiful
You gotta just let it go/ Spark up a blunt and smoke
Similarly, in her song “Bed Peace”, featuring Childish Gambino, she sings:
Yeah, what I am trying to say is/ That love is ours to make so we should make it
Everything else can wait/ The time is ours to take so we should take it
We should stay right here/ We should lay right here’Cause everything is okay right here
Conclusion: Dissociation Is Complex
Dissociation is multifaceted. It can signal trauma, offer temporary respite from trauma, and potentially even a path to healing trauma.
Altered states of consciousness, whether from known dissociatives like ketamine, or other substances, give us an opportunity to choose when and how to leave our physical realms and return. They shift our awareness of our spirits, minds and bodies, and often create pleasurable sensations and new insights along the way.
Cuentas closes our conversation by reminding me that the intentions we bring to these experiences are important. “You are recording information in your subconscious/psyche. So what do you want to put there?” she asks.
We can’t necessarily make the world safer today. So there is power in creating microcosms of the world we are dreaming forward. In creating a practice of pleasure and joy, we’re able to fill our spirits like a well to draw upon during difficult experiences. Perhaps eventually, as these micro-moments of safety and resourcing find their way into our embodied realities, they will spread like mycelium and we will create a world that is less traumatizing to begin with.
This article was updated on July 19, 2021 to reflect changes by one of the sources.
Rebecca Martinez is a Xicana writer, parent and community organizer born and raised in Portland, Oregon. She is a co-founder of the Fruiting Bodies Collective, an advocacy group, podcast and multimedia platform addressing the intersections between healing justice and the psychedelics movement. Rebecca served as the Event & Volunteer Coordinator for the successful Measure 109 campaign, an unprecedented state initiative which creates a legal framework for psilocybin therapy in Oregon. She is also the author of Edge Play: Tales From a Quarter Life Crisis, a memoir about psychedelic healing after family trauma, spiritual abuse, and police violence. She serves on the Health Equity Subcommittee for Oregon’s Psilocybin Advisory Board as well as the Board of Advisors for the Plant Medicine Healing Alliance.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Joe, Michelle, and Kyle talk psilocybin, the DEA, patents, IP, and more, and are joined by newest Psychedelics Today team member, Psychotherapist and now Director of Operations and Strategic Growth, David Drapkin.
They first review a recent study in which mice showed a long-term elevation in neurotransmission and improved stress reactions after receiving psilocybin, and they talk about post-experience glow, the REBUS model, and the best timing to focus on integration after an experience.
Then things turn a bit sour, with a story on the DEA asking a court to throw out a case against them filed by two cancer patients claiming the Right to Try Act should allow them to use psilocybin, on the basis that their end-of-life care would lead to more black market activity. That, combined with a Vice article pointing out that companies can patent products or techniques based solely on theories (and this is already happening) and Sha’Carri Richardson being banned from competing in the Olympics due to testing positive for cannabis in a legal state sends the team down a familiar rabbit hole on the evils of the drug war, the annoyance of patents, the race for lawyers, and the many concerns around IP, capitalism, and even climate change.
But they end on a higher note, with a Johns Hopkins study asking for participants to share their experiences with psilocybin and SSRIs, discussions on Francis Bacon, the renaissance, and eye-gazing, and a beautiful photo essay highlighting the traditions and rites of passage of the Huichol people and their relationship with peyote.
Notable Quotes
“This is not surprising from the DEA. …It does feel like we have a really big shift in drug policy and the culture around drug use in the US, and so I think the DEA’s kind of putting its foot down to be like, ‘Not so fast, psychonauts.’” -Michelle
“We’re talking about people here that are terminally ill. So this is not recreational use, this is not decrim. This is people that are terminally ill, so this is palliative care. And having worked in hospitals, I’ve specialized in addiction as well, so I know about medications that are legal. They’re not on that Schedule I, and they caused 90,000 deaths in America last year, and they’re called opioids; they’re not called psilocybin. So the whole idea of this scheduling system really doesn’t make sense anymore when we think about it from just an objective, empirical sense.” -David
“Where’s the leadership? ‘Saint’ Joe Biden said recently, ‘The rules are the rules’ in regards to this case, and it’s disgusting. I just can’t really get over his resistance on cannabis policy and his unseeing of the race issues.” -Joe “One of my favorite questions around IP: How many lives have been saved by IP and how many lives have been lost by IP? Fascinating. I don’t have any answer, I haven’t really spent the time to really think that through, but just on the face of it, you know that there’s some stuff going on there, because people die all the time from not being able to afford meds, and the meds are only expensive due to IP.” -Joe
“At the age of 21, I was electrocuted and nearly died, and literally, the next day, I went on a spiritual adventure that hasn’t finished yet.” -David
Keeno Ahmed-Jones shares her experience trying to instill anti-racism values at a major psychedelics institution, and how difficult it proved to be.
As progressive and inclusive as the psychedelic renaissance purports itself to be, there are continuing issues around understanding, respecting, and making efforts to expand equity and inclusion in psychedelic spaces. Without an honest recognition of how systemic issues are manifesting in the burgeoning psychedelic industry, the psychedelic renaissance will inevitably fail to help our world heal from painful, ongoing social injustices.
In October of 2020, MAPS Canada became the subject of these issues when an Open Letter and Call to Action was published. The authors, Keeno Ahmed-Jones and Ava Daeipour, detailed their efforts to help MAPS Canada implement ethical, socially conscious and culturally sensitive policies and move towards equitable access to psychedelics. These efforts were subsequently obstructed by the organization.
In this interview, we hear from Keeno Ahmed-Jones about her experiences that led to the Open Letter and Call to Action. She shares details of her professional background in education advocacy and policy work, and how it helped inform her endeavors at MAPS Canada.
*Note to reader: This interview took place in March of 2021. In the weeks that followed, a second Open Letter was written addressing further issues with the MAPS Canada board. In the past three months, three members of MAPS Canada’s board have resigned.
Sean Lawlor: Can you describe how you came to work for MAPS Canada?
Keeno Ahmed-Jones: I moved to Canada in 2018, after being in New York for over 20 years. My professional background is in K-12 and adult education; I’ve worked in public service for a long time, including for major governmental organizations. My first exposure to systemic stratification in the context of educational opportunities was during my tenure at the New York City Department of Education, which, at the time, served 1.2 million school-aged students. I then served for several years advising the Board of Regents and leadership at the New York State Department of Education on programs and policies for adults and out-of-school youth. When I came to Vancouver, my birthplace, I knew of the research that MAPS was doing on MDMA, saw there was a chapter here, and was interested in seeing how I could contribute to their efforts as a volunteer.
Given my background, I started volunteering on the policy committee, but when I saw that they were well situated, I asked if there was a diversity committee. One thing that was very notable to me upon attending the first general volunteer meeting was the lack of people of color in attendance; out of the 40-plus people there, I was one of three in the room from a racialized background. And so, when I found out that there wasn’t an active diversity committee, I started one, which I co-led with another woman, Ava Daeipour, who ended up helping me write the open letter and call to action sent to MAPS Canada. The letter brought into high relief a lot of the issues that I think are endemic not only for MAPS Canada as an organization, but really… you hear the term “psychedelic renaissance” bandied around, and I think that psychedelic renaissance really needs to raise the bar, based on my experiences at least.
SL: Specifically in terms of diversity?
KAJ: Diversity is one element. But beyond that, I think MAPS Canada really had the opportunity to become an exemplar of an organization and, unfortunately, instead of listening to people such as myself trying to inform and educate them on how to become a twenty-first century organization centered on anti-racist values, collective liberation, and the tenets of cultural humility, they really actively resisted that.
I understand their advocacy for psychedelics, but I think there is an essential question that MAPS Canada and other organizations in this space need to ask, which is beyond diversity. “Is the playing field equal?” Every organization, non-profit or not, loves to talk about “corporate social responsibility,” and publicly place those statements front and center, especially in the wake of Black Lives Matter and the gaping inequalities that came to the fore in 2020. The pandemic illuminated a wide chasm that exists between the haves and the have-nots. And the murder of George Floyd compounded that reality into vivid detail for a lot of people that didn’t understand the traumas that people of color have had to endure—and I want to specifically forefront Black and Indigenous folks who have lived under the yoke of that oppression in North America.
But, beyond the logistical hurdles around regulatory frameworks and proselytizing about legalizing psychedelics—and I do understand the passion and advocacy for that—when it comes to eventual access to these novel MDMA and other psychedelic treatments, some key questions need to be answered. Who’s going to be first in line to receive these treatments? Who’s going to be administering them? Who’s going to be doing the integration work? I’ll venture to guess that the clinic up the street from my old office in New York City charging $4000 for a course of ketamine sessions is not within reach for the vast majority of people.
SL: For folks who are less familiar with the situation, would you be willing to share more about what happened at MAPS Canada, and your experience in the wake of the open letter?
KAJ: I came to my volunteer role from a background where my work was mediated via a policy lens, with a lot of value placed on collaborative and community-based approaches. Gaining diverse perspectives and working within a framework that ensured equity and inclusion was critical because in my work, decisions had the power to materially impact very marginalized people who were already struggling and in need of fierce advocates. And one of the things I came to value through those experiences was being on the ground with people knee-deep in those efforts, including people living those stories of struggle. I find that kind of work not just a calling, but a privilege.
At MAPS Canada, I did not see those conversations happening, frankly—internally or externally. There seemed to be no interest nor engagement. So, one of the things that I started to advocate for early on was introducing a JEDI (Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion) framework, and talking about collective liberation—which were both in various stages of implementation at MAPS in the US, so I thought that both would be relatively easy to adopt. But I was basically told: hold the phone; we are not about collective liberation, and MAPS Canada is not a “save the whales” organization. It was incredible to hear someone actually say that to my face.
After living in New York City, I think I had a bit of a mythologized vision of what life would be like in Canada, to be in a community that I thought had a better, more compassionate understanding of racism and colonialism. And I quickly found that was very much not the case. Rather, it’s been more problematic, because a lot of people are under the delusion that Canada is a post-racial society. Of course, that myth is quickly debunked if you look around, whether that’s at the overrepresentation of Blacks in the prison population, the deplorable treatment of First Nations in the healthcare system, racial inequities in school suspensions, police surveillance, wage inequities, I could go on.
So, while MAPS Canada released quasi-apologetic statements after the open letter came out about having limited staff, and claims about suffering from the affliction of being white with blind spots, and so on [Psychedelics Today tried to find the links to these statements but could not]… a huge part of what occurred, and what is happening across the psychedelic domain, comes down to worldview. It’s a values decision. And, as far as boardrooms of nonprofits and for profits, white voices, most of them male, are what is valued.
And so, instead of true coalition building, stepping down from that pedestal to engage in critical dialogue around equity, access, and reciprocity, there’s a Gollum effect taking place, a sort of metastasizing hunger for the psychedelic gold ring, if you will. There are the pandemic Instagram photos of these same folks in Costa Rica scoping out places for retreat centers, or multinational corporations looking for real estate in the downtown eastside of Vancouver to open for-profit clinics.
Photo provided by Keeno Ahmed-Jones.
SL: Thank you for sharing all that. Once you put out the open letter, was there any change or acknowledgement? I know there was a lot of exposure around it, but do you feel that it was heard?
KAJ: Well, materially, has there been any change? Not to my knowledge. I know that a lot of declarations have been made, not only from MAPS Canada, but other organizations in this space that are adjacent to MAPS Canada. I feel like when an organization goes through a bit of a public relations debacle, like MAPS Canada did, the propensity is to do damage control. And when you have an all-white board, for example, attempts are made to diversify that board. But just because you now have a brown or black face on your board, that doesn’t really mean anything. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
I think there needs to be a radical reimagining of what this “psychedelic renaissance” looks like. Many of these organizations have constructed these top-down, colonial projects with extractive ideologies, have conflicts of interest and undisclosed public/private partnerships, and lack accountability and transparency. Those are major concerns that need to be addressed first and foremost, prior to thinking about whether your organization is diverse enough.
SL: So, the open letter was published in October 2020; what has your focus been? Are you still working in this psychedelic renaissance?
KAJ: I am, and thank you for asking that question. A lot of people have asked me that. I think one of the most brilliant things about the open letter was the support it received from all around the world—including Indigenous activists in Canada, the US, and the Global South. I’ve been in conversation with some of them, including in Canada, who shared their interactions with people in leadership at MAPS before and had less than stellar experiences, and so just did not want to engage.
I do have a project that’s in motion, which I hope to share soon, interwoven with the themes of psychedelics, social justice, mental health, and drug policy. And I am working with grassroots activists, practitioners, and other bright lights in the space envisioning sustainable models of self-determination and new ethical frameworks.
SL: I look forward to this project when the time comes to announce it. Last thing I want to ask: As you can probably tell, I am a white person working in the psychedelic field, and I want to keep getting more involved. Looking at the reality that there is a disproportionate amount of white people in this work, what would you suggest white folks in this movement do in order to help change these issues?
KAJ: I love that question and think it’s a good one. Taking the step to educate myself has always been a core tenet of my approach and what I recommend to others. There are so many resources out there on anti-racism. Read books about the colonization and history of the Americas authored by Black and Indigenous authors. Examine issues around white fragility. I think those are solid building blocks.
Being able to sit in that container of self-examination is really important—apart from the psychedelic journeys—because I think a lot of people go to that as a shortcut. But entheogens are not an antidote for racism. MDMA is not some sort of cosmic equalizer.
I think we need to think more holistically about understanding privilege, being in community, and doing a lot of listening. “Why is this space not more diverse?” I think that’s a huge question in these spaces. Why are the people attending these community meetings not representative of this city I live in? Is there something unwelcoming about this space?
I think it has to be a slow, gradual approach. It’s not going to happen overnight. There needs to be trust-building, community-building, and a lot of listening. That really takes time, intention, and effort, and I think it begins with an in-depth examination of privilege. These are deep assumptions and beliefs that people have held onto that have to be challenged.
Psychedelics Today reached out to MAPS Canada for a comment on how the organization has been moving forward since the Open Letters were published and the work (if any) that it is doing to be a more inclusive institution. Their Board Chair, Eesmyal Santos-Brault, provided us with this statement:
MAPS Canada has made significant changes in the past six months to its leadership, board of directors, governance, accountability reporting, and operational structure, and this work is ongoing. As part of this, we are undertaking the work of creating new codes of conduct, ethics, and practice for all current and future board members, staff, and volunteers. Our current diversity committee, which consists of eight volunteer members (all of whom represent a wide spectrum in terms of age, and self-defined gender, sexual orientation, ethnic background, racial identification, indigeneity, spiritual beliefs, ability, and more) are leading MAPS Canada’s work to articulate and embed our commitment to equity, justice, diversity, inclusion, and reconciliation within the structures of our organization and all that we do, beginning with a new Terms of Reference drafted by the committee in November, 2020. This work is ongoing, and we look forward to sharing our progress in these areas with all stakeholders and the public in the coming weeks and months.
This piece was updated on July 28, 2021. In the original article it said that three members of the MAPS Canada Board had resigned in the past two months, it has been changed to three months.
Sean Lawlor is a writer, certified personal trainer, and Masters student in Transpersonal Counseling at Naropa University, in pursuit of a career in psychedelic journalism, research, and therapy. His interest in consciousness and non-ordinary states owes great debt to Aldous Huxley, Ken Kesey, and Hunter S. Thompson, and his passion for film, literature, and dreaming draws endless inspiration from Carl Jung, David Lynch, and J.K. Rowling. For more information or to get in touch, head to seanplawlor.com, or connect on Instagram @seanplawlor.
In this episode, Joe interviews former Navy SEAL and BUD/S instructor turned actor and star of two of his own TV shows (“Manhunt” on Discovery and “Predators Up Close” on Animal Planet), Joel Lambert.
Lambert talks about his 10 years as a Navy SEAL and the toll it took on his brain, from the microtraumas from repeated gunfire and other weaponry causing his memory, mood, and cognition to deteriorate, to the difficulty of adjusting back to normal civilian life after a decade of living at a speed and intensity normal people don’t understand- a transition for which we, as a society, don’t provide enough time and space. And with detailed description and humor, he tells the story of what saved his brain and brought him back to the person he once was: a trip to Mexico and amazing experiences with ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT.
He also talks about his more recent psychedelic experiences and how he no longer feels he needs psychedelics, how his meditation has become one of the biggest parts of his life, his “Manhunt” show, the future and scalability of psychedelic-assisted treatment, and his appreciation for Dr. Martin Polanco, Amber and Marcus of VETS, and the donor who made it possible for his life to completely change.
Notable Quotes
“When you look at warrior cultures throughout history, in almost every society that has a warrior tradition, there is some sort of ritual or acknowledgement of these warriors coming back from whatever it is they do and the medicine man or the shaman or the religious persona or function in the tribe would do something to isolate [them]. …Even the acknowledgement of a ritual purification; whether it is something specific and material and effective or not- just that acknowledgement is huge. And we don’t do that.” “We connect back to the myth, we connect back to the ritual. We connect back to the power of the collective unconscious in whatever way that it is we can bring that forward. And there’s a reason that it’s there and there’s a reason why we flounder when we are not connected to it.” “It started off with this buzzing. This nightmare buzzing started happening all around me. And then the visions. Boom. I had never seen, Joe, anything with my physical eyes with the clarity and distinction and reality that these visions were playing in my mind. And it’s a nightmare. It is a literal nightmare. ….It was an alien machine hell of fractals and a consciousness that was like nothing I could conceive of before experiencing this in this alien machine hell.”
“What’s crazy is I think I’m actually moving past the psychedelics now. It’s been amazing, it’s been incredible, and I’m a huge psychedelic proponent and fan and I want to bring this to people as much as possible, but what’s amazing is that with the meditation and with the practice and with, I think, the integration that the group has provided for me and my own integration and my own practices, it’s gotten to where my consciousness and the springboard that psychedelics provided has taken me to a place where I feel like I don’t need them.”
Originally from the Pacific Northwest and raised in a little logging town on the Columbia River, Joel Lambert grew up performing on stage and in commercials before selling all he had and running off to join the armed forces, where he served as a Navy SEAL for ten years, earning distinction and experiencing combat in places like Kosovo and Afghanistan. Returning home decorated and serving as a lead Instructor at BUD/S, the screening and selection school for men aspiring to join the elite Navy SEALs, he was drawn back into the world of film and television.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Joe, Michelle, and Kyle talk about the importance of critiquing established systems, give several legalization updates, and discuss inclusivity in therapy and research.
They first review an email from a listener who took issue with some of the points in Matt Ball’s episode and much of Joe’s continued open discussion of his illegal drug use. This leads to a discussion on ethics (professional vs. virtue-based and why there’s even a difference), how psychedelics are challenging perceptions, how psychology is used as a weapon, privilege, the need for more frameworks, the concept of licensure equating to knowledge, the need to be open about drug use, and more. And Joe has learned to not read email right before going to bed.
They then discuss updates on legalization: Mexico decriminalizing cannabis, Scott Weiner’s Senate Bill 519 making more progress in California, the Oregon psilocybin board being right on track for their legalization timeline, and Connecticut becoming the 18th state to legalize cannabis (with records expunged and, among other things, the ability to have 1.5 ounces in public and another 5 at home!). They also discuss the Canadian government funding Toronto-based Braxia Scientific in a ketamine trial for bipolar depression, and an article talking about the need to include more queer and non-binary people in clinical trials (and encourage people who aren’t straight and white to enter into therapeutic fields for the comfort of people like them).
Notable Quotes
“Helping decrease stigma through storytelling, I believe, is crucial. And I think that’s a big portion of why we’re here doing this show. How many of my drug experiences have been legal? I don’t know, I don’t think very many. I’m not going to go ahead and pretend that I went to the Amazon. I’m not going to lie to you. I just think it’s important to show that hey, these laws are unjust, I’m justified in breaking these laws, and I’m going to continue to do it.” -Joe
“I think maybe folks who think they identify as hetero; when they go into psychedelic experiences, they might realize that they’re suppressing some attraction to the same gender, [or] maybe they don’t identify as the gender they were born in. Stuff like that happens. And do we have the training and the sensitivity to help folks deal with that? I think the answer is: Not yet.” -Michelle
“There’s a lot of people who the medical system is not appropriate for, unfortunately. And is it their fault? Not necessarily. It could be racial trauma, it could be a lot of other factors going on. If you understand the history of medicine and a lot of the abuses in psychiatry, you will begin to understand why many folks have reticence of using the system.” -Joe
“Coming back to this topic that we’ve talked about over and over again about a mad society or sick society; ok, we’ve had these really powerful experiences so we go back and try to fit it into this mold that doesn’t seem to be working, or do we take this and try to do something else with it? Why do we always have to integrate back into society to some degree? If society is sick, why do I want to go back to that sick environment?” -Kyle
“I saw John Mayer wearing a peyote t-shirt on his Instagram the other day. That can’t be a good sign.” -Joe
Are you interested in attending one of our upcoming Navigating Psychedelics course offerings?
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Join Joe Moore Friday July 2nd at 9:00am MST in this special Q&A to get all of your questions answered, so you can dive into a course that levels you up in your career of psychedelic integration support.
In this episode, released on Stan Grof’s 90th birthday, Joe interviews Kristina Soriano & Jonas Di Gregorio of the Psychedelic Literacy Fund, a donor-advised fund focused on educating the world about psychedelic therapies by financing the translation of classic books into different languages. Their first big project has been to publish new translations of Grof’s classic, The Way of the Psychonaut.
Kristina and Jonas first told us about their project back in December, and they’re back to update us on their fundraising progress: new translations, future projects, a new volunteer, and a generous grant through HalfmyDAF. They talk about experiences with ayahuasca and virtual reality, audiobooks and the joy of reading, how the translation process works, and the birth perinatal matrices.
And they talk a lot about Stan Grof, with Joe discussing how much his work has meant to him and the formation of Psychedelics Today, which was created largely to promote Grof’s work and the power of Holotropic Breathwork. If you want to donate to the furthering of Grof’s knowledge in honor of his birthday, please do so at Psychedelicliteracy.org.
Notable Quotes
“It’s so fortunate that we chose The Way of the Psychonaut as our first book because Stan is turning 90 years old this year and it’s a wonderful way to celebrate his dedication to this field of psychedelic psychotherapy. He’s devoted 60 years of his life to this, to pioneering this way, and it’s really an homage to his fierce courage and curiosity in bringing this message forward. And the receptivity that we’ve had from our project just really shows how much people have been affected and positively influenced by his work.” -Kristina
“When we speak about books about psychedelics, especially in countries where there is a different understanding of what they are, etc., [a] publisher can be very much reluctant and hesitant in translating them. And so that’s why, especially now, where clinical trials are showing these incredible results in the United States and a few more countries, it makes sense for philanthropy to think strategically [about] how these books can catalyze clinical trials and research in other countries.” -Jonas
“Stan is so positive. It’s so beautiful how he accepts this is the 9th decade of his life and [he’s taking] all of the pieces and putting them all in a row, so that way, the passing is smooth. And it’s such a beautiful acceptance of this reality. But also, we want to assure the people of this generation that it’s being passed on to a generation that respects and honors the pioneering efforts that they’ve done, and we’ll make good on that promise so that we will learn from the past and bring it forward in a way that’s holistic and healing for everyone. That’s my hope.” -Kristina
Husband-and-wife team, Jonas Di Gregorio and Kristina Soriano, established the Psychedelic Literacy Fund in May of 2020 as a donor-advised fund managed by RSF Social Finance in San Francisco. The vision of this fund is to educate the public about psychedelic therapies by financing the translation of books into different languages.
Kristina Soriano holds a Masters’s Degree in Healthcare Administration from Trinity University. A classically trained pianist and multi-instrumentalist, she is the Executive Director for the Women’s Visionary Congress.
Jonas Di Gregorio comes from an Italian family of publishers, Il Libraio Delle Stelle. He holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from La Sapienza University of Rome.
Defining transpersonal psychology, exploring its history, and examining how it relates to psychedelic experiences.
Transpersonal psychology, the branch of psychology that concerns itself with the study of spiritual experience and expanded states of consciousness, has often been excluded from traditional psychology programs. However, as we traverse the reaches of the psychedelic renaissance and interest in the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness continues to grow, understanding transpersonal psychology is of growing importance.
What Is Transpersonal Psychology?
Sometimes transpersonal psychology is referred to as “spiritual psychology” or “the psychology of spirituality” in that it is the branch of psychology that concerns itself with the domain of human experience that is not limited to ordinary, waking consciousness, transcending our typically defined ego-boundaries. As a discipline, transpersonal psychology honors the existence and latent wisdom contained within non-ordinary experiences, concerning itself with unravelling the implications of their meaning for the individual, but also for the greater whole. It attempts to combine age-old insights from ancient wisdom traditions with modern Western psychology, trying to encapsulate the full spectrum of the human psyche.
Prior to the inception of transpersonal psychology, the idea that psychologists should study spirituality was unheard of. Compared with traditional psychological approaches, transpersonal psychology takes a non-pathologizing approach to spiritual experience and non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Reflecting on the origins of the discipline, psychedelic researcher and author, Dr. James Fadiman, offers, “Transpersonal psychology, in its simplest definition, is concerned with understanding the full scope of consciousness, primarily within the human species, but not limited to that which can be described easily by Western science, religious or mystical traditions, nor by Indigenous categorizations.”
“Unlike the rest of psychology, it has not attempted to use the trappings of scientific method to make it more acceptable,” Fadiman adds. “As a result, it has often been identified pejoratively as part of the “new age” counterculture, since it freely investigated states of consciousness and approaches to personal growth and development that were not being looked at by the other psychologies.”
Although Fadiman is generally more well-known for his pioneering work in microdosing, he was one of the prominent figures in shaping the early transpersonal movement. Together with psychologist Robert Frager, Fadiman co-founded the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in 1975, now known as Sofia University.
Transpersonal psychology was formally launched in 1971 by psychologists Abraham Maslow and Anthony Sutich. It emerged as a “Fourth Force” within psychology, with the other three forces being cognitive behaviorism, psychoanalytic/Freudian psychology, and humanistic psychology.
In the 1950s, American psychology was dominated by the schools of cognitive behaviorism and Freudian psychology, however, many felt that these approaches to understanding the human psyche were limited and this growing dissatisfaction led to the birth of humanistic psychology. Humanistic psychology was closely linked to the transpersonal movement in that it was also founded by Maslow and many of the same individuals.
No longer a psychology of psychopathology, humanistic psychology concerned itself with the study of healthy individuals, focusing on human growth and potential. One of Maslow’s main qualms with behaviorism was the limitation of applying animal models to human behavior as this approach would only serve to illuminate the functions that we share with given animals. As such, he felt that behaviorism did not serve to enhance our understanding of the higher functions of our consciousness such as love, freedom, art, and beyond. Additionally, Maslow felt Freudian psychoanalysis was lacking due to its tendency to reduce the psyche to instinctual drives and draw on models of psychopathology.
Humanistic psychology attempted to take a holistic approach to human existence, concerning itself with self-actualization and the growth of love, fulfillment, and autonomy in individuals. Despite the popularity of the discipline, and the new “Human Potential Movement” that spawned around it, Maslow and others felt that there were some critical aspects lacking in humanistic psychology. Namely, the acknowledgement of the role of spirituality in people’s lives.
In 1967, a working group including the likes of Abraham Maslow, Anthony Sutich, Stanislav Grof, James Fadiman, Miles Vich, and Sonya Margulies met in Menlo Park, California with the aim of developing a new psychology that encapsulated the full spectrum of human experience, including non-ordinary states of consciousness. In this discussion, Stanislav Grof suggested the new discipline or Fourth Force should be called “transpersonal psychology.” Thereafter, the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology was launched in 1969, and the Association of Transpersonal Psychology was founded in 1972.
Despite the formal beginnings of transpersonal psychology in the middle of the twentieth century, the movement has its conceptual roots in the early work of William James and Carl Jung, psychologists who were mutually interested in the spiritual reaches of the human psyche. Touching upon the relevance of Jung’s contributions to the field in his book Beyond the Brain, Dr. Stanislav Grof, one of the founding fathers of transpersonal psychology and pioneer in the field of psychedelic research, described Jung as, “The first representative of the transpersonal orientation in psychology.”
William James, father of American psychology, is also perceived to be one of the founders of modern transpersonal thought, making the first recorded use of the term “trans-personal” in a 1905 lecture. However, James’ use of the term was more narrow than the way it is used today. Not only did James’ philosophy contribute to the development of transpersonal psychology, his early experimentations with psychoactive substances, in particular nitrous oxide, have also added substantially to the psychology of mystical experiences and the scientific study of consciousness.
Reflecting on his experience in The Varieties of Religious Experience, James wrote, “Our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.” It is these very forms of “entirely different” consciousness that transpersonal psychology concerns itself with.
Understanding the Nature of Transpersonal Experience
The term transpersonal literally means beyond (trans) the personal, and as such, transpersonal experiences are those which serve to evaporate and transcend our ordinary, waking consciousness. Although transpersonal experiences are sometimes induced spontaneously, they can also be brought on by contact with nature, engaging in contemplative practices like meditation, sex, music, and even by difficult psychological experiences. They can take place in a variety of forms, whether it be a spontaneously induced mystical state, out-of-body or near-death experience, a unitative state elicited by psychedelics, or even an alien encounter experience.
Transpersonal experiences are inherently transformative in that they usually serve to broaden our self-conception, often providing us with a broader cosmological perspective. Take for example, the experience of ego death, or ego-dissolution as it is referred to in the scientific literature, a type of transpersonal experience that can be triggered by the use of psychedelics. In the ego death experience, the ordinary sense of self fades into an experience of unity with ultimate reality or “cosmic consciousness.”
Such experiences are both fearful and enlightening, but are thought to be one of the reasons why the psychedelic experience is so transformative for so many people. Viewed through the transpersonal lens, ego death tends to be understood as a beneficial, healing process in which an individual is able to let go of old ego structures that are no longer of service, making space for new, more integral ways of being.
Transpersonal experience is not limited to the world as we know it to exist in everyday reality. In a transpersonal experience, one might find themselves projected out of their body, viewing remote events in vivid detail or having encounters with entities from other dimensions. Describing the nature of such states in their book Spiritual Emergency, Stanislav Grof and the late Christina Grof, suggest that they include elements that western culture does not accept as objectively real, such as deities, demons, mythological figures, entities, and spirit guides. As such, they write, “In the transpersonal state, we do not differentiate between the world of “consensus reality”, or the conventional everyday world, and the mythological realm of archetypal forms.”
Such experiences facilitate a sense of harmony and meaning, connection and unity, and self-transcendence which are associated with positive effects such as heightened feelings of love and compassion. However, that is not to say that transpersonal states always have positive consequences, as they can also be incredibly destabilizing and have the ability to cause psychological distress, often referred to as a “spiritual emergenc(y)” in the transpersonal literature.
Science, as it stands today, is limited in its purview. Mainstream science and psychology is largely dominated by materialist approaches to consciousness and mental health. Within the materialist paradigm, matter is considered primary to consciousness, which is believed to be an accidental by-product of complex arrangements of matter. According to Fadiman, “The problem for mainstream psychology has been the unmeasurable core of transpersonal’s interest, namely, human consciousness.”
Fadiman suggests that mainstream psychology has become more and more “scientistic.” That is, it has become dogmatic in its belief that science and the materialist reductionist values that underlie it are the only way of objectively understanding reality. “Psychology is more concerned with statistical significance than personal utility, and its subject matter now includes a remarkable amount of research with animals, where their consciousness can be most easily ignored,” he shares.
Fadiman reflects that transpersonal psychology’s interest in the nature of consciousness and states of consciousness that extend beyond personal identity makes it “at its very best, the ugly stepsister that one leaves at home when going out to join material sciences parties.” Sharing an example of this, Fadiman pointed to the American Psychological Association’s refusal to grant accreditation to a transpersonal graduate school.
“This was not because of the quality of its dissertations which were rated quite highly or for the span and variety of its courses nor because of the financial status of the institution,” Fadiman continues. Rather, “It was turned down solely on the basis of its fundamental subject matter.” In essence, it boils down to the question of materialism, as many transpersonal psychologists believe in some form or another that consciousness cannot be explained by processes of the brain alone.
Almost all indigenous cultures who have used psychedelics for hundreds perhaps thousands of years report that as one’s consciousness expands beyond the perimeters of the identity, that there are other beings, other realms of existence which are met, often across cultures with identical descriptions.
—James Fadiman
Further, Grof describes the dominant scientific perspective as “ethnocentric” in that “it has been formulated and promoted by Western materialistic scientists, who consider their own perspective to be superior to that of any other human group at any time of history.” However, he suggests that transpersonal psychology, on the other hand, has made significant advances in remedying the ethnocentric biases of mainstream science through its cultural sensitivity towards the spiritual traditions of ancient and native cultures, the acknowledgement of the ontological reality of transpersonal experiences, and their value.
The Relevance of Transpersonal Psychology in the Psychedelic Renaissance
The resurgence of interest in the medical, psychological, and transformational benefits of psychedelics has naturally generated increased awareness of transpersonal states and their value for the health of the human psyche. When it comes to the study of spirituality and non-ordinary states of consciousness, transpersonal psychology has long paved the way, validating the veracity and psychological benefits of such states. As such, it offers itself as an important reservoir of knowledge when trying to understand the healing potentials of psychedelics within therapeutic contexts, but also when trying to understand their broader socio-cultural implications.
In spite of not being widely recognized, transpersonal psychology has long led the scientific endeavor to understand the totality of the human psyche through its embrace of non-ordinary states of consciousness that have hitherto been dismissed as “psychotic” or merely “hallucinations” by mainstream science. Fadiman explains that transpersonal psychology continues to take seriously and without judgment the results reported by individuals working with psychedelics. “For example, almost all indigenous cultures who have used psychedelics for hundreds perhaps thousands of years report that as one’s consciousness expands beyond the perimeters of the identity, that there are other beings, other realms of existence which are met, often across cultures with identical descriptions,” says Fadiman.
The conceptual frameworks of the dominant model are inadequate when it comes to understanding non-ordinary experiences, including those elicited by psychedelics. As such, Fadiman suggests that, “As we continue to develop more accurate maps of inner space, it is likely that transpersonal psychology, with its emphasis on subjective as well as objective observation will continue to play a prominent role.”
This article was updated on July 19, 2021 to correct the years the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology and Association of Transpersonal Psychology were founded.
About the Author
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer in the psychedelic space. Since 2018, she has been working for the fiercely independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany, and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine has written for Psychedelics Today, Chacruna Institute for Plant Medicines, Lucid News, Cosmic Sister, Psychable, and Microdosing Guru. She is currently pursuing an MSc in Spirituality, Consciousness, and Transpersonal Psychology at the Alef Trust with the future aim of working as a psychedelic practitioner. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, ethically-integral, and meaningful way.
In this episode, Joe interviews Australia-based psychiatric nurse practitioner andNavigating Psychedelics graduate, Matt.
He tells the story of his first experience with psychosis and his eventual diagnosis of schizophrenia, followed by the realization years later as to what he may have been trying to express through that break. He digs into different frameworks for considering what the mind is doing when it dissociates or when suicide feels like the right decision, and what we can learn from the stories of people going through such tribulations. Through hisJust Listening community, he is exploring the idea of facilitating environments where people can feel safe enough to not have to resort to these extreme states.
He also discusses his concepts of “dissociadelic” and “dissociachotic,” the Power Threat Meaning Framework, targeted individuals, the Hearing Voices movement, his Suicide Narrative approach, how schizophrenia has never been clearly defined, how the DSM isn’t based on science, how spiritual experiences and receiving messages are celebrated in psychedelic experience but considered a disorder in mental health, and how dissociation happens regularly in our daily lives.
Notable Quotes
“A lot of the story around suicide is how we have to get rid of people’s experience of considering ending their own life, and my interest is in about understanding the meaningful human narratives that manifest in the experience of feeling like we need to escape this life. And so that leads into this idea of mind manifesting realities, which is of course, so central to psychedelics.”
“When we say, ‘You have a chemical imbalance which is depression,’ that’s a bit like saying, as I’m talking to you, I have a chemical imbalance because I’m a little bit nervous, [and] I’ve got a lot of points to make so the energy in my body has gone up. Well there’s a change in chemicals, right? But I don’t need bloody medication for it, I need to be able to be in relationship with you about it.”
“That’s what I’m talking about: the courage to allow the other person to have another reality to mine, and [to] not, at some point, undermine it by saying we’re ‘accepting’ their reality. You’re not accepting their reality, their reality is their reality. I’m accepting my reality and they’re accepting theirs. I don’t need to accept somebody else’s reality, I need to stop trying to impress my reality on somebody else.”
“The problem with complex PTSD is the D at the end of PTSD. ‘It’s a disorder.’ Well, it’s not a disorder to respond to threats in the way you’re responding to them. That’s normal.”
Matt previously led the training of 250 staff in the Maastricht approach to hearing voices in the public mental health system in South Australia. He was also a co-convener of ReAwaken Australia and released a single series ReAwaken podcast through Humane Clinic.
Matt continues to pursue the reality of a mental health system that does not medicalize human distress. He is committed to understanding common human experiences as best being approached by seeking to provide justice to the story of any individual through deep and intentional listening and human connection.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Joe, Michelle, and Kyle switched things up a bit by broadcasting the recording of this episode onInstagram live, as well as dedicating much of the discussion to our oft-mentioned but not properly dissectedNavigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists course.
The course is always mentioned briefly, but based on the number of questions we receive, (and with the latest cohort of the live edition beginning in a month on July 22nd), we felt it was time for Michelle to interview Joe and Kyle about the course: what it really entails, who it’s for, what a “Grofian, transpersonal framework” means, what people who have taken it have gone on to do, and what Joe and Kyle’s favorite parts of the course are. They talk about the course’s humble beginnings, they both try to define “process” with varying degrees of success, and Joe compares teaching the class to Yoda teaching Luke Skywalker the ways of the force after he crashed on Dagobah.
They then discuss two interesting news stories. First, they look at a new trial studying the use of nitrous oxide as a treatment for depression, which is exciting due to the clean and quick application of nitrous, as well as simply the hopeful option for a different treatment other than SSRIs or benzodiazepines. And along the lines of hopeful new treatments, they then review a press release from Cybin, a company working on a proprietary psilocybin-esque compound specifically to treat anxiety disorder indications. This gets everyone reflecting on their own process, their own work, and the need to critique psychiatry and medicine while also accepting they have their place, along with every other framework.
Notable Quotes
“[Stan Grof] went through, had all the training, was doing Freudian analysis and clinics and working at a hospital and he was not very impressed with the results coming from Freudian therapy. And all of a sudden, LSD came on the scene. …And [he] had this really crazy LSD experience. …Just a really massive experience: a light a million times brighter than the sun, all this fun, classical, mystical experience stuff. [He] went in a materialistic, mechanistic Freudian, [and] came out a devotee of Shiva. And what does that mean, that in 14 hours (or whatever- however long that was), that that kind of a change can happen?” -Joe
“Just thinking about psychedelics and education, psychedelics are pretty weird. And to teach it and think that it’s so streamlined and these are the things that we have to talk about in this way, and we’ve had it all figured out; I think if psychedelics taught me one thing, it’s [that] we know nothing. And I think this is where the curiosity comes back. Our teacher Lenny was talking to Stan [Grof] (I think it was back in the 80s, at Esalen), and Lenny was sharing a story with him, and Stan just looked at him and said, ‘Many strange things happen on LSD.’” -Kyle
“We can critique psychiatry and we’re not saying, ‘Defund psychiatry.’ We’re not saying, ‘Get rid of it.’ A critique can lead to growth. That’s why you take workshops as an art student. Critiques lead to learning and they can lead to change in a positive way. That’s all we’re asking for: just thinking about things critically, and then perhaps we can find little things to upgrade a little, in a way, or just be a little better.” -Michelle
“Science is a series of provisional truths and we want to keep updating our knowledge map. And science is the best tool we have for understanding reality, but there are other ways of knowing. So that’s kind of where we live; in this weird, hybrid landscape of traditional ways of knowing, and then also the scientific method being the one that gets us the most certainty.” -Joe
A review of The Nature of Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Social Impact (Synergetic Press, 2021), a collection of eight lectures given by the “godfather of ecstasy” Dr. Alexander Shulgin.
And so begins one of the best classes you’ll ever take…
“Most of you have already been exposed to drugs, and most of you will personally decide if you wish to become exposed again in the future. The goal of this course is to provide specific information concerning drugs, as to their actions, their risks, and their virtues. And that’s really what my role is, I’m a seeker of truth. I’m trying to find out what’s there. I am not an advocate for nor an advocate against drug use. I have my own personal philosophies that have no business in here. You’ll find that I am quite sympathetic with a lot of drugs that people say are evil and bad. But in truth, I want you to have enough information that you can decide for yourself whether this is something that’s your cup of tea, quite literally caffeine, or whether it is something you wish to stay out of.
“I’m going to have a theme for this whole course called “warts and all.” Namely, what is known about drugs, what is to be found out about them, what do they smell like, what do they taste like, what are the goods, what are the bads. Why is it so bad to use drugs? Why is it occasionally so good to use drugs?”
—Alexander Shulgin, The Nature of Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Social Impact
The Nature of Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Social Impact by Alexander Shulgin is out now with Synergetic Press.
What’s beautiful about this work—a volume of the first eight lectures from Alexander “Shasha” Shulgin’s popular course on drugs at San Francisco State University—is that for those of us who never knew Sasha, or only saw him briefly, it’s a window into a beautiful soul. Like Robert Sapolsky, he’s one of those extraordinary teachers of science who brings so many layers to the experience of how science actually works. Through his anecdotes and asides, he does away with science as a function of perfect observers, removed from their subjects with ideal impartiality and presents a messy system of egos, funding priorities, ‘novelty’ and blind groping towards the Truth.
Many of us know Dr. Alexander Shulgin through the landmark books he wrote with his wife Ann, PIKHAL and TIKHAL, which are a mix of autobiography, love story, and drug syntheses. Even more of us know him through his beloved compound MDMA, which he popularized and made famous. But this book, The Nature of Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Social Impact, shows another side: a teacher of phenomenal worth.
I’ve been studying drugs for twenty years, but Sasha Shulgin’s lectures to his students still gave me new insights on almost every page. He has a way of making the complexities of pharmacodynamics accessible by turning the human body into a bathtub. He talks about how the water gets filtered, how it goes down the drain, and how that makes a difference in the drugs you take. The understanding he imparts of how drugs work is invaluable.
But what feels so special is the glimpses you get of the alchemical man himself. In these lectures, occurring in the Year of our Reagan 1987, he makes clear his opposition to the War on Drugs. The students taking his course might not have expected a year-by-year rundown of the increasing crackdowns since 1980, but that’s what they learned. And if you sit yourself in their seat as you read this book, imagine being a student in Reagan’s Amerika learning about the Drug War from a white-haired chemist who admits in the first lecture, out of the 250 known psychedelic compounds, to have tried about 150 of them.
But he doesn’t look like Hunter S. Thompson. He looks like a tall kindly man with his pretty wife in the front row taking notes. He approaches chemistry as a ‘sacred art’. He rails against ‘holding laws’ that are simply used to hold people that the police don’t like the look of. He drops jokes constantly and calls his scribbled diagrams of molecules ‘dirty pictures’. I like to imagine myself in this classroom and I wonder if I would have been sharp enough to figure out that this was one of the greatest underground chemists of all time.
There’s a clue near the end, while he’s talking about his own history in industrial research and playing one of his imagination games with his students:
“Take, for example, how you define new sweetening agents, agents that you put in coffee that make coffee taste sweet. How would you go about finding them? It’s your job. You’re hired and you are working for Monsanto. “Find a new sweetening agent. We want to knock Nutrasweet off the market.” How are you going to find it? You’re right now at the nitty gritty of research; your task is to find a new sweetening agent. Here are our leads. Here are five materials that do cause sweet tastes, but this is too toxic, this has a bitter aftertaste, this one takes fifteen minutes to come on, this one causes cancer, and that one causes teratogenesis. We can’t use them. But we need one because we’re losing the market. Saccharine is not going to be available much longer. How do you find one?
“Well, my philosophy, that people would cringe at, is to put a damp finger into it and taste it. [Laughter.] That to me is the heart of how you find a sweetening agent. Well, what if it’s going to cause cancer of the jaw? Okay, then you come down with cancer of the jaw, but you’ve found a sweetening agent. [Laughter.] So you have risk and you have reward.”
This was the same method he used to test MDMA when he first synthesized it a decade before these lectures. Unfortunately, only three months earlier, the feds had banned MDMA by putting it into Schedule 1. They also passed the Federal Analogues Act that would be used as a wide club against any “substantially similar” molecule (a phrase that makes him shake his head. “Is the taillight structure of a 1986 Pontiac “substantially similar” to the taillight structure of a 1984 Chevrolet?”). Despite these crackdowns, his wife in the front row would go on to lead an untold number of therapists into an alliance with MDMA and its chemical cousins like 2C-B. And their books PIHKALand TIHKAL would document a beautiful love story, fertilized by his psychoactives. He knew that the drugs that interested him couldn’t be found by testing them in animals. As an alchemist, he knew you had to stick your finger into it and taste it for yourself.
In his first lecture, he shares with the students,
“My first experience with morphine was with a wound I had during WWII and I was going into England. I was about three days out of England on a destroyer and was below decks and we were playing cards and killing the time until we got into England. I was on morphine pretty much all the time because this was one hell of a painful thing. And I was dealing with one hand, I learned to deal with one hand, and the guy in sick bay would come by and say, “Is your thumb still hurting you?” “Yeah, probably a little bit more than it had before. Whose deal?” You know, the next thing you’re dealing cards. The pain is still there. It’s a beautiful, powerful tool to treat pain because the pain is there, but it doesn’t bother you.”
As he doesn’t reveal in the first lecture, in 1960 Sasha first tried mescaline while a young chemist at Dow Pharmaceuticals. He said of the experience, “I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability.’’
Chemicals can also catalyze profitability. The next year, he created Zectran, the first biodegradable pesticide. Dow could sell it by the ton. And as he said to his class—most likely with a wink and a Groucho Marx smile, “And industries love things they can sell by the ton.”
With his success, Dow was content to leave him alone in his lab, puttering around and doing just the kind of things he wanted. It was a chemist’s dream. And this dreamer dreamed up novel psychedelics.
As Hamilton Morris lovingly laid out, Sasha began with a simple modification to the mescaline molecule. He added one carbon to a side-chain and it became the psychedelic amphetamine that he called TMA. He continued experimenting and produced TMA-2 through TMA-6. The last one eventually went on to become a moderately popular psychedelic in the US and Japan.
As an alchemist, he knew you had to stick your finger into it and taste it for yourself.
1963 marked the beginning of the end for the cushy Dow years: Sasha synthesized DOM (his PIHKAL entry here). By 1966, with LSD illegal, this psychedelic amphetamine started appearing on the street under the name STP (Serenity, Tranquility, and Peace). It earns its name. Shulgin himself said on 4 mg, “It is a beautiful experience. Of all past joys, LSD, mescaline, cannabis, peyote, this ranks number one.”
But the effects of DOM can last much much longer than LSD. You might have been enjoying the merry-go-round, but eventually you want to get off and let the world stop spinning. At 5 mg, he wrote, “The experience continued unabated throughout the night with much tension and discomfort. I was unable to get any sleep. I hallucinated quite freely during the night, but could stop them at will. While I never felt threatened, I felt I knew what it was like to look across the brink to insanity.”
Unfortunately, just in time for the Summer of Love, some underground chemist dosed a batch at 20 mg of DOM per pill. On top of that high dosage, the full effects can take two hours to kick in and so it’s easy to imagine redosing because you don’t think it’s working. In Golden Gate Park at the huge and historic Human Be-In, thousands got way too high in trips that could last for three days. Within a year, the feds made DOM illegal and when Dow figured out the mind behind the molecule, they kindly showed Dr. Shulgin the door.
He went to his home laboratory in the hills outside Berkeley, California, and became a gentleman scientist in the vein of Ed Ricketts. But instead of the sea, Shulgin peered into the mind. He kept his Schedule 1 license by being useful to the DEA and funded himself with consultations and teaching. In plain sight of the authorities, he tinkered with hundreds of psychedelics—including the rediscovery of MDMA.
From this unique perspective, the students in Sasha’s class got to learn about two of the trickiest problems in pharmacology and sociology:
How do you define ‘drug’?
How do you define ‘drug abuse’?
He begins, “Philosophy aside, what is a drug? The FDA has given a marvelous, marvelous, long legal definition that goes on for four paragraphs”. He continues to gently mock this FDA definition until he shares a better explanation from Professor Samuel Irwin: “A drug is any chemical that modifies the function of living tissue, resulting in physiological or behavioral change.” But Shulgin takes it farther:
“I would make the definition looser yet, and considerably more general. Not just a chemical, but also plants, minerals, concepts, energy, just any old stuff. Not just changes in physiology or behavior, but also in attitude, concept, attention, belief, self-image, and even changes in faith and allegiance. “A drug is something that modifies the expected state of a living thing.” In this guise, almost everything outside of food, sleep, and sex can classify as a drug. And I even have some reservations about all three of those examples.”
Cue the laughter. In these transcripts, you often see [laughter], and you know the transcribers are probably underreporting it. It makes you want to listen to the original tapes. Those lucky kids, getting to learn about ingestion methods from one of the great alchemists of the century. Sasha teaches on how we metabolize these drugs, how they sequester to different tissues, how we form bad habits with them and how we form good habits with them.
“If you can drink modestly, if you can use tobacco modestly and have a choice, have freedom of choice, and choose to do it and you have a good relationship with it, and it applies to alcohol, it applies to tobacco, it applies to LSD, it applies to heroin—there is nothing intrinsically evil about any of those drugs. Drugs are not intrinsically evil. In fact, we are going to get into the question of what is drug abuse. The problems that are bothersome with the definition of the word “drug” are nothing compared with the ones that are to be faced with the word “abuse.””
He even had a collection of definitions of ‘drug abuse’. From his huge consumption of articles, essays and public talks, you can imagine the different versions collected in his files, like species of beetles pinned in a collector’s cabinet. He found they fell into “the four operative words: what, who, where and how.”
What a drug is…
a particularly lousy definition because drug abuse is linked directly to the shape of the molecule itself.
Who’s giving the drug…
following Szasz, if drugs from a doctor is drug use and if self-medication is drug abuse, then doctors stand between you and your drugs like priests did between you and God before the Reformation.
Where is the drug obtained…
according to Dr. Jerome Levine at NIMH, drugs from “illicit channels, and/or in medically unsupervised or socially unsanctioned settings.”
“I personally believe, most strongly, that in the improper use of drugs lies their abuse. Dr. Irwin has phrased it thusly: “[Drug abuse is] the taking of drugs under circumstances, and at dosages that significantly increase their hazard potential, whether or not used therapeutically, legally, or as prescribed by a physician.
…
“People use drugs, have always used drugs, and will forever use drugs, whether there are physicians or not…
“Any use of a drug that impairs physical or mental health, that interferes with one’s social functioning or productivity is drug abuse. And the corollary is also true. The use of a drug that does not impair physical or mental health or interfere with social functioning or productivity is not drug abuse. And the question of its illegality is completely beside the matter.”
And the Freedom Fighter in him isn’t slow to point out how these definitions are used to harm people in the real world via the War on Drugs. Plus, the sly wizard mentions the recent banning of MDMA as a textbook example of the misuse of drug abuse.
What a prof. He defines terms, rambles on to fascinating asides and uses brilliant metaphors. And of course, he made no secret of his dislike of midterms, finals and grades. He’s the kind of cool teacher who takes a Socratic poll on what kind of final to have and finally decides to make it an essay question where you have to disagree with him.
Buy The Book: The Nature of Drugs
All these lectures give the portrait of a courageous, beautiful soul. And with this book, the course is only getting started. There’s another volume still to be published where he will drill down into the various categories of drugs.
Anyone interested in psychoactives should get this book and support the further compiling of Dr. Shulgin’s work. If you’ve ever spent $30 on any of his chemical creations, helping out by buying the book seems only fair. And you get to own a lovely portrait of someone whom we are very lucky for having lived and having taught.
In this episode, Joe interviews Hadas Alterman, Serena Wu, and Adriana Kertzer: three lawyers who came together to form Plant Medicine Law Group, a law firm serving the cannabis and psychedelic space.
They discuss their individual paths towards psychedelics and each other, who they hope to serve and work with through the firm, adversarial relationships within the psychedelic ecosystem, and what they’re most excited about in the future, ranging from bringing psychedelic knowledge to traditional Chinese frameworks to working on a Measure 110-inspired decriminalization plan for New York.
They also talk about the problems with “manels” and “wanels” dominating the event circuit, Tina Fey, law accepting the concept of emotional harm, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the idea of using psychedelics for dispute resolution cases, and the issues with bringing new religious exercises and concepts to judges who came from traditions and viewpoints based only on the three major religions.
Notable Quotes
“For me, being Chinese American, I don’t see a lot of Asians in the psychedelic space, and it was hard for me to come forward and be public about coming out with this law firm as well as coming out with my own story about my experiences. But the thing is, I thought: If I’m not saying something and I’m waiting for someone else to say it, then I can wait a very long time. So instead of waiting, why don’t I become that person that I’m hoping to model after or look up to?” -Serena
“If we’re not all here exchanging value within the market, for goodness sake, what are we doing?” -Hadas
“I really hope to see, one day, for certain types of disputes, psychedelic-assisted dispute resolution. I can see this working really well with certain types of family law. I would be very interested to see this in corporate settings, although I think we’re a ways off. I just feel like this basic underlying concept of oneness is inherently at odds with the traditional Western legal system because when it’s you against someone else, that’s bifurcated- that’s two. So what would the law look like if we weren’t two; if we were really treating each other as one?” -Hadas
“I’ve been compiling a list of references to psychedelics in contemporary television shows, movies, music, and fashion, and I think that we’re really seeing a moment in which, on the negative side, you have a mental health care crisis and real proof that the current medical system is failing us and that SSRIs are not the only answer; and on the other hand, you’re seeing cultural production that is normalizing or creating curiosity around psychedelics, such that a book like Michael Pollan’s [is] not landing on an empty table of cultural production. There’s a lot that’s happening, even in music videos, that makes it so that a book like that creates a tipping point (but it’s not the only thing that creates a tipping point) that then creates a kind of momentum that, in my opinion, creates legal change.” -Adrianna
About Hadas Alterman, Adriana Kertzer, and Serena Wu
Hadas Alterman is an Israeli-American attorney, born in Jerusalem and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has a J.D. from Berkeley Law and a B.A. in Community Studies/Agriculture & Social Justice from the University of California at Santa Cruz. Prior to founding Plant Medicine Law Group, she worked with a leading cannabis law firm in San Francisco. Hadas was the Policy Director of NYMHA, an organization that she co-founded that successfully lobbied for the introduction of a New York bill to decriminalize psilocybin by statute, and is a Board Member of the Psychedelic Bar Association. She also serves on the Equity Subcommittee of the Oregon Psilocybin Advisory Board.
Serena Wu is a Chinese-American lawyer, born in Hainan and raised in Los Angeles. She has a J.D. from Harvard University Law School and a B.A. in Media Studies from University of California, Berkeley. Serena began her legal career at Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP in New York City as a litigation associate, and is deeply committed to increasing equitable access to alternative healing, including psychedelic plant medicines. She is the founder of @womeninpsychedelics, an Instagram account that showcases the contributions, voices, and experiences of women in the psychedelics space, and Asian Psychedelics Society (“APS”), a group dedicated to discussions about psychedelics and mental health in the AAPI community. Adriana Kertzer is a Brazilian-American attorney, born and raised in São Paulo. Adriana has a J.D. from the Georgetown University Law Center, a B.A. from Brown University in Judaic Studies and International Relations, and an M.A. from Parsons The New School for Design. She began her legal career as a corporate associate on Simpson Thacher & Bartlett’s Latin American capital markets team. She was Senior Advisor to the Senior Deputy Chairman at the National Endowment for the Arts under President Obama, is on the board of Doctors for Cannabis Regulation, and is the author of the book Favelization: The Imaginary Brazil in Contemporary Film, Fashion and Design. She is passionate about Jewish psychedelic culture, leads the interfaith working group Faith+Psychedelics, and founded @jewwhotokes, an Instagram account that explores relationships with cannabis and psychedelics in the Jewish community.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Michelle, Kyle, and Joe review the most interesting articles and recent news in the world of psychedelia.
They first talk about Chacruna’s article highlighting not only the world’s first trip-sitter, but also the first woman to take LSD, Albert Hofman’s assistant, Susi Ramstein. They then look into the new Pill-iD app coming out in the UK, which will match user-submitted pictures of MDMA with pictures from their database, using machine learning to determine purity and strength. While this is good (especially in a post-quarantine environment of people very eager to chemically celebrate their ability to be together again), how much can we really know without any chemical analysis? And how much should we trust their database?
They then revisit their discussion on California’s Senate Bill 519 (turns out it does mean legalization after all, but if so, why is “decriminalization” used in the bill’s title?), excitedly discuss the first all-drug decriminalization bill being submitted to Congress (the Drug Policy Reform Act, or DPRA), talk about psilocybin being studied for anti-inflammatory effects and Robin-Carhart Harris’ recent interview with Court Wing, and finally, get into the very real and often not-talked-about importance of ancient and Indigenous language and the danger of losing it: Are we going to lose more knowledge from the loss of language than from the destruction of habitat?
Notable Quotes
“The argument here is not only the human cost, [but] the real financial cost of an overdose is extreme, relative to getting ahead of this. So cities and governments can save money by offering this. Less dead bodies to pick up with your EMTs, less situations of overdose to respond to. …If we can do harm reduction [and] say, ‘Hey, these are people too,’ we also save money, and we save lives, and we get those lives back into society in a hopefully meaningful way.” -Joe
“The bill is damning of the drug war, of criminalization, [and it] talks about how criminalization and the drug war have added more harm to consumption. And the fact that it passed the California Senate means that these politicians are starting to catch on to how brutal this has been. And in this post-BLM, post-George Floyd and Breonna Taylor era; hey, you guys have got to clean your act up, otherwise, you’re going to have riots on your hands.” -Joe
“If this bill does pass, I feel like that’s sending a message to the whole world that we can be rational again. This wasn’t rational, this wasn’t based on science, and a lot of people mistrust us now because of that. …What would we be showing young people if we did this? …Not that we need more respect for authority, but we could respect authority at all if they could show us that they could rule or govern us in a rational, science-based way.” -Michelle
“If we ever get to the point in human civilization where things start to collapse and we need to understand the environment [and the plants] a little bit more, we’re going to be very lost. Just going outside and looking around you, what plants do you know? What stories do you know about the plants around you? Do you know what’s edible? Do you know what’s medicinal? All these things that you call weeds are actually edible plants or have really great medicinal value. Do you know the story of the landscape in which you live in?” -Kyle
The two have an intimate conversation that spans from how Carhart-Harris’s work began, how his theories, like the REBUS model, took shape, and what other applications psilocybin may have for treating mental, spiritual, and physical health conditions.
The interview has an interesting twist because Wing participated in an NYU trial of psilocybin for major depressive disorder and experienced full remission from a recurrent battle with depression after his first dose of the magic mushroom compound. Wing shares a lot of his first hand experience with Robin Carhart-Harris on how the trial he participated in changed his mood state and mindset, and what the possible neurochemical changes felt like subjectively.
Court Wing: Is this, in any way, in the arc of what you expected to see when you started out this research?
Robin Carhart-Harris: Wow. Hmm… Maybe it is. Or… no it’s not. No. [laughs] I mean, after a few years, you start to realize the therapeutic potential, or I did.
Initially, it was like, psychedelics are fascinating tools… Powerful tools to revolutionize our understanding of the mind and the brain. That’s what drew me in. And then I was like, “Oh, and the therapeutic application is actually very compelling.” Once I caught onto that (and this was probably sort of midway through my PhD in the late noughties, you know, late 2000s). Then, I remember, Ben Sessa was trying to get a psilocybin for alcoholism study going at Bristol, where I was doing my Ph.D. We had meetings with seniority, who basically weren’t interested in our idea. And then I said, “Leave it ten years,” and we’ll be able to do this research. I think someone said once, “You overestimate what you can achieve in a year and underestimate what can be achieved in ten.”
That rings true. The changes in a decade have been colossal so it’s been beyond expectations, really.
CW: Personally, it’s hard not to feel a great deal of gratitude for the work that you’ve all done. As you know, I went through the NYU psilocybin study for major depressive disorder a year ago. And [now I’m in] total remission. I mean, just so unexpected. And I read the research, I saw the reports, I read the review paper of the neural mechanisms, which actually was the first thing that truly excited me because I had lost track of the prefrontal cortex atrophy and seeing words like neurogenesis, synaptogenesis, dendritic arborization; it’s like, that’s part and parcel of what I had been studying in things like chronic pain for the last ten plus years. But to go through it and to feel a physical absence of the depression; I don’t have a better term for it. Like a missing burden.
Anyways, what type of data were you seeing [early on] that made you want to pursue this on a study level? Because it’s one thing to hear about this stuff occurring anecdotally, but then to [say], “Boy, there’s enough traction there that I think we really have something”?
RCH: Yeah, yeah. I think if we rewind to the end of the 2000s or even earlier, mostly in terms of mental health data, it was abstract. It was the work done in the 50s and 60s that we looked at as a historical curiosity.
It wasn’t enough to put that and Indigenous use in [a] healing context. It wasn’t enough to put that together in my mind and think, “Oh, this is really compelling.” So a few things made the difference. And I think sometimes you need to (even though I’m a scientist, and I shouldn’t say this, in a way), you do sort of need to see things with your own eyes. And what made a big difference for me was doing our own brain imaging research.
Taking healthy volunteers, looking in their brains and seeing things that were suggestive of an antidepressant effect, and then listening to them say, “I feel lighter. I feel unburdened.” And then thinking, well, now this seems really tangible. And that makes sense in the context of Roland [Griffiths]’s work in healthy volunteers, and Charlie Grob’s work in end-of-life anxiety.
So then we started piecing things together for a UK Medical Research Council grant. And that got through. And the reviews were remarkably good. I don’t know, but I imagined some fellow researchers in this space were allowed to review our proposal and did us a favor, because the reviews across the board were top marks. And I think, then the UKMRC were in a difficult situation, because [they thought], “How do we reject this when everyone’s saying this is really top quality research that they’re proposing?” And actually, we proposed a double blind randomized control trial then in 2012 that we couldn’t complete until 2021 because of the difficulties of actually doing the research. We ended up doing that open label trial that was published.
But I would say, a turning point for me was the first patient in our TRD [Treatment Resistant Depression] trial. She just responded remarkably. She visibly became a different person from heavy, head down, minimal eye contact, tearing up when starting to open up, no smiles—gosh, no, just frowns. And then, after the treatment, the warmth and the color and the smiling and a beautiful smile came on her face. And it was just a wonderful, beautiful thing. It’s such a privilege to be able to do that for someone. And that was a massive turning point. It was like, “Oh, my goodness, this really works.”
CW: Yeah. It’s startling, trying to describe to people the one-day turnaround quality of this. And I think it’s actually very much undersold, because I told the researchers, Dr. Stephen Ross at NYU and my facilitators afterwards. You know, I went through the MADRS scores, which you are now more than familiar with [laughs], and at the end of the session, one of the facilitators [asked me], “So how do you feel?” And I’m like, “Oh, good.” And then I did a deeper scan, like reflexively, and I was like, “Good.” Like, I could tell it was gone. And I was like, “That fast? Honest to God, that fast?” And they’re like, “Well, we’ll know when you’re unblinded.” But in retrospect, if I had been given the chance to take the original MADRS evaluation again, my scores would have gone higher. Because now in the absence [of depressive symptoms], I can tell how much more severe they were. It’s a strange thing.
One thing that you’ve said a couple times here, and perhaps it’s a figure of speech, but I believe there’s a somatic quality to it. And since you brought up the fMRI studies, you mentioned people discussing feeling lighter, feeling unburdened, like there’s this description of the condition that has this feeling of extreme heaviness or being bogged down. So there’s some aspect that involves this interoceptive quality where there’s obviously slower reaction times and things like that, but what do you think is operating there? Because I remember, in the fMRI studies, you guys were a little bit surprised by seeing the type of changes in blood flow that were going on. I believe, [you] expected one thing and instead ended up with something else. Do you have any thoughts to that area?
RCH: Yeah, yeah. I’ve often thought (and experience has endorsed this view) that we often intuit mechanisms through our language, the way we’re describing the experience, and whether or not there’s some kind of priming effect or not. Maybe it is [priming], but also, I’m not sure it really matters, when ultimately you do the research and see that it’s endorsed. But the analogies that you’re used to hearing today (the popular ones, or the well-used ones) around heaviness and being bogged down; it’s all weight related. There’s heaviness, there’s weight. You know, you get bogged down. So there’s a gravitational pull to the depression, which means it pulls you in and you can’t get out very easily. And I think (I’ve got to intuit, because we don’t know yet, but) it’s something to do with synaptic weighting, and that certain circuitry gets weighted. If we really zoom in on a very low level, it’s probably the synaptic weighting certain connections belonging to certain circuitry associated with heavy introspection. [They] get heavily weighted in depression.
What happens? Well, that’s another fascinating question, and maybe a different question. But let’s just say that that’s the character. On a descriptive level, that’s the character of chronic depression and a depressive episode is that you get stuck. Literally, you get stuck in a certain sort of dynamic configuration because that heavy synaptic weighting is the reinforcement of that.
RCH: Yeah, it’s very relevant. In people’s people’s mind’s eyes, they can imagine a landscape. And in a depressive episode, you literally have a depression in that landscape. And if you imagine a ball being able to move in this landscape, and that being your mind at any given time, then in a depression, the ball is spending a disproportionate amount of time in the depression in that landscape. It falls in very easily, [and it’s] very difficult to get it out. And so what psychedelics are doing is just pushing up that depression and flattening the landscape.
CW: Right. I’ve heard the ski slope analogy. So either we have fresh powder that’s either filling up the depression, or we have some sort of artificial means like a snow plow that’s smoothing everything out. So if we were to just roughly characterize the nervous system as biasing towards efficiency, even if that depressor, that enemy energy minima is more efficient, it’s not necessarily more effective anymore in our daily lives. At some point, it was the 2A adaptation toward some high priority event, but now it’s become maladaptive… I listened to that lecture byAndrés Gómez Emilsson of QRI [Qualia Research Institute]. There’s this discussion of criticality with the mind and with a depression. It’s almost, to some degree, like an event horizon, almost. Right? The pull is so strong, it’s very hard to get out of there. So why is it, once that landscape is flattened, as these new neural connections in the functional connectivity are occurring, why does it resort into a better, healthier connection? I mean, if this quality of openness is being promoted, why are we defaulting back to something that’s more useful, something that’s healthier, something that’s more, I guess, effective, as well as efficient?
It’s one of the issues with doing psychedelic research. [It’s] almost by saying, “I’m a psychedelic researcher,” [that] you’re seen as somehow a lesser scientist.
-Robin Carhart-Harris
RCH: Yeah. I actually do think that the fresh covering of snow is a good analogy. So if you’re born into this world, and you haven’t been affected by life in any particular way, you have a very smooth, fresh ground of snow there. And I suppose, what’s happening with the psychedelic experience; I mean, this is very mechanistic, and is not putting much on the therapeutic component and so, that’s a little dangerous to put it all on, like, “The brain resets.”
CW: Sorry. Yeah, well, the intent makes a huge difference. That’s clear.
RCH: It does. And so, you could have the snow falling, and you can manipulate things in a way that potentially could even reinforce certain circuitry. But that doesn’t happen, because the contextual; the environment in which you have the psychedelic experience is nurturing in the way that it should be for a newborn coming into the world: You’re not trying to heavily indoctrinate them or drive them in any particular direction, other than to care for them and just say, “You are safe, and I will hold you as we move through life.”
But you know, things could go in a horrible direction there. Horrible kinds of things could happen that could start to reinforce a certain shape to the snow. And so anyway, I think it’s a mix. It’s a mix of the fresh falling of the snow [and] shaking the snow globe, [which] is the one [metaphor] that I came up with personally. But the fresh falling of the snow is like an old neuroplasticity analogy. And there is something called the plasticity paradox, which says that plasticity, in and of itself, isn’t necessarily healing, but if the plasticity comes and is utilized in a positive way (and so in the context of psychedelic therapy, it’s utilized and honest in a therapeutic way), then you have the magic sauce.
And so I like to say these days in as many interviews as I can [is] that psychedelic therapy is fundamentally a combination treatment. It’s not just shaking the snow globe. You could shake the snow globe in someone already psychologically unstable, and when the snow settles, it might not be a great picture. But you shake the snow globe in someone who’s ready for this to happen, and it happens in a perfectly nurturing, supportive environment, then the snow is going to settle. I think you can feel quite confident that the snow is going to settle in a healthier way.
CW: Do you think beyond just the psychiatric applications, which seem quite vast still—I mean, honestly, the smoking cessation and cocaine addiction early results… are just completely astonishing—but do you think there are lateral applications? Obviously, I’m quite invested in the changes that are possible, I think, for chronic pain of a potentially non-nociceptive type, but even for nociceptive chronic pain. I have to give credit here to Dr. Brendan Hussey. I saw his presentation on your REBUS model back in July with a MAPS Canada Journal Club, and he had an amazing slide deck. And, I, myself, personally, had a very deep revelation on March 6th, which was the day after I went through [psilocybin-assisted therapy] (March 5th [was] my dosing day) where it’s like, all of these things suddenly opened up where it’s like this can change this whole picture here. Once I saw Brendan’s work describing yours and I had a visual, [I realized] the REBUS model completely overlies the descriptions for the last decade and a half of what’s going on in chronic pain, in terms of how a pain neurosignature is formed. Have you thought about it at all? I think it’s like, beyond psychological.
RCH: Well, that’s fascinating. Maybe there’s some things there that I don’t know that I could learn. We are planning a chronic pain trial in fibromyalgia with psilocybin therapy.
It’ll start at the end of this year at Imperial. I’m moving to UCSF, but that trial will carry on with the money that I was lucky enough to bring in.
[It relates to] the REBUS model in the sense that the precision weighting is exactly what we’re talking about here. Assumptions are heavily weighted. Certain assumptions—you might call them pathological assumptions, you might even call them adaptive assumptions, defensive assumptions—deserve a bit of compassion, because the body of [the] mind is doing its best to try and stabilize things in a way. So in a sense, depressive episodes, eating disorders, image disorders, chronic pain, they’re often the body and the mind trying to do their best defensive strategies. But we’d rather not have them, you know? And then that takes some bravery, doesn’t it?
Perhaps this is most acute in something like anorexia, where the [adaptation] is so maladaptive, it’s killing people often. It’s ego-syntonic for the sufferer, meaning they don’t see themselves as suffering, like, “This is good, this is working.” And so, it’s adaptive, maladaptive, it depends how you look at it, but to most eyes, it’s maladaptive. But it takes bravery, because [people think], “Oh my goodness, you’re going to take away this thing that I need?” like in an addiction. Like, “I’m not ready to give this up, I need this!”
You know, and there’s sort of irony there: “I’ll die without it.” It’s like, “No, you’ll die with it.” But that’s the sort of pivot, isn’t it? And again, it brings us to the requirement. Sometimes, actually, a conscious decision needs to be made to let go, both in the experience itself, but also the decision to have the treatment in the first place.
CW: You spent the better part of a week, pre-publication [of the “Psilocybin vs. Escitalopram for Depression” trial], going through this long explanation of how someone should look at a study as both proposed and then executed, and then how the results are interpreted, and how a journal can also interpret those things. But you took it upon yourself, I think, slightly unusually, to kind of let people know: Really go to the tables, go to the appendices, that’s where you’re going to see the striking numbers. And there’s been many expert reviews saying, “Well, okay, they were wise to in fact not do an adjusted comparison, because then it doesn’t account for the random chance possibility that it’s just a statistical anomaly,” right?
At the same time, honestly, I met someone who also went through the same trial I went through up at Yale, [being treated for] 26 years of major depressive disorder and [then experiencing] full remission. We couldn’t stop going on about the MADRS [depression rating] scores. I understand the QIDS [depression symptomatology scale] one, and now there’s a little buyer’s remorse in there about like, “Ahh, why [did we choose] this one [for the psilocybin vs escitalopram study]? Why this one [QIDS]?”
RCH: [laughing] I know.
CW: And there’s been some criticism that in the prereq, if I’m saying it correctly, where there was kind of one expected outcome that was supposed to be measured, and they [New England Journal of Medicine] were saying there is one way that was registered with the US boards and another way with the UK boards, and that, in the paper itself, it didn’t actually discuss those things. But it doesn’t feel like you guys were pulling a dodge or anything like that. And I think even if people just look at the QIDS remission and response rates and the secondary outcomes; I mean, I am trying not to fanboy all over the place, but it’s so commensurate with what happened for me and what other people have described.
RCH: Yeah. It was a very interesting experience. We certainly didn’t in any way, or could be accused of pulling a dodge. I would say one way to look at how all of this has gone is that we played it so straight, and so the miss on the primary has to be reported because it was pre-registered ahead of the trial to be the primary.
Do we regret choosing the QIDS as the primary? Well, of course we do. And now we understand. Actually, and this could be sort of sour grapes, speaking to a bias in favor of psilocybin, but I do believe it’s not a great measure. And you just have to look at that forest plot that I’ve now pinned to my Twitter page, to see that it’s an anomaly. It looks like a false negative. And I think the right interpretation is that it’s likely to be a false negative and these two conditions do separate.
So we played it very straight. Was it bad luck? Well, if you believe that the ground truth is that psilocybin is the better treatment, and that hasn’t come through because of the miss on the primary, then yes, it’s bad luck. And so part of the effort in trying to get ahead of the messaging was just that; to try and keep people closer to the results themselves, and to say, “Look at the results in some detail.” And that’s quite unusual, I think, for researchers to do.
RCH: They’re often more wanting people to hear their narrative. And I was sort of, in a sense, saying, “Look beyond the narrative (because it wasn’t our narrative, it was the editor of the journal), and look at the results. And you decide.” I felt that we were made to spin the results in a way that misled the reader, that didn’t accurately represent the results. And that bothered me. So I felt I had to communicate to people early on, and I couldn’t say it at that stage, because I couldn’t reveal the results.
So all I was saying to people was trying to explain the nature of the stats, and then say, you know, if there’s anything you do here, just look at the results in detail, and go to that supplementary appendix. The way we were treated in terms of not being allowed to include that forest plot, what’s the agenda there? Hiding results? It’s very questionable. And I’ve stopped short of getting conspiratorial about it, but it’s almost like, “Well, let’s move that out of the way, and, you know, lift this one up, it’s missed on the primary.” And there was so much more to see.
It was an unusual experience. And it felt like the power of [the] deep establishment wanting to frame things a particular way, like, “Nothing to see here. Carry on, everything’s as usual everybody. SSRIs are for everybody.” I don’t know.
CW: It certainly wasn’t your first rodeo. It’s not as if you were fresh to letting results out or doing deep, intimate work with a well-received theoretical basis, right? And yet, they’re almost acting like, “Well, these young fellows, what a nice idea they have,” or something like that.
RCH: Yeah, [it’s] one of the issues with doing psychedelic research. [It’s] almost by saying, “I’m a psychedelic researcher,” [that] you’re seen as somehow a lesser scientist.
And the deep establishment has that position on things. I actually think there’s some published work on this where people have looked at the opinion of scientific peers on those who declare whether they’ve had a personal psychedelic experience or not, and it does transpire that peers view people disclosing their personal uses as suggesting that they’re a weaker scientist in some way. And that’s kind of frustrating, but it is what it is.
But there are some very high standards that we’re being assessed by here, standards that haven’t always been in place. As SSRIs have developed and got through, there’s been a lot of scandal and bad practice in terms of the data on SSRIs. So playing it very straight as we did, and, in a sense, underselling the results, I’m kind of okay with, because I know in time, the truth will [come] out. And the whole area has been getting so excited and expectations are so high that a little bit of moderation at this stage with this particular trial is probably a good thing. So I sort of accept it somewhat reluctantly, in terms of the way the paper was framed. But it got into the New England Journal of Medicine.
CW: Yes it did.
RCH: And that was really important.
CW: And even if it was a moderate, conservative, staid description of the results, the results were like: It [psilocybin] was just as good as our standard of care [SSRIs] right now. And the appendix; that’s why I wrote the Op-Ed for Psychedelics Today, just to say, look, he’s been telling us, and anyone who’s gone through this, that went into full remission, can say this is not even remotely close to the same thing. I almost wonder if the quality of remission that we’re discussing between the SSRI and psilocybin, if, internally, it’s two different types of remission? Because I’ve been on the other stuff, and this is not that. It isn’t.
RCH: The one result that’s most impressive is probably the remission rates. What we’re seeing with the escitalopram (and this probably reflects a more general rule) is improvement in symptom severity, but not reliably into remission. I think that’s it. If remission is ultimately what you want with a treatment, which of course it is—to be free of the disorder—then you’re much more likely to achieve that (twice as likely to achieve that) on the most conservative measure on the trial with the psilocybin.
CW: I think [on] day two of the study, there [were] approximately (depending on which score you used), something like 25 to 30 plus people [who] had stopped being depressed on day two. I truly envied the fact that you guys were running a two-dose study, because it did seem like, from my perspective, even though things had gotten remarkably better [for me], that a second dose would have made a big difference.
RCH: What time point, Court, do you think a second dose would have made [the] most sense?
CW: I think you guys have got it right on the money. Honestly.
I think three weeks. It’s like you have that first week where you’re just kind of in this freefall, like, “My God, is it really this simple?” And then starting to incorporate it in the following week, you know, kind of like, “Is this stable?” Probably doing a lot of reality checking. And then [you’re] just waiting for that ghost of the previous condition to kind of re-emerge. And then by week three, you’re now actually starting to incorporate all this and it’s like, “I have more questions.” I keep regretting the time I didn’t spend under the eyeshades. [laughs]
Honestly, you know, at a certain point, there [were] things [I was] so compelled to talk about, you know? I wasn’t psychedelically naive. 25 plus years earlier, someone had led me on a set-and-setting transpersonal session with [a] high-dose [of] LSD, and that had been remarkable, honestly, for years. But this was… the psychological material that emerged, it’s like, I had no idea [that] the things that came up were going to, and so a second session, like, by week three, it’s like I had formed enough around what had occurred in the first session. It could have been five weeks and that would have been fine.
But I think if you’re talking about things in the course of treatment, like say, spatial summation vs. temporal summation, I think to kind of maintain that intensity level for that neuroplasticity to really gel, usually you need novelty and intensity. And I think Andrés Gómez Emilsson could probably argue this quality of valence. I think three weeks seems just about right. I don’t know. I’m thinking of Ros Watts, and she’s like a bodhisattva on the planet, I swear. Every time I hear her voice, it’s so calming and reassuring. But I think in the three week period, beyond that, you start to get almost lonely for your therapist and the session, if that makes sense. So, you know, it’s just like, “Ah, good. I finally got to go back to that thing again.”
It’s an extraordinary time [considering] what’s just happened with the MDMA and PTSD studies. And I think that’s about their spread there, too. They have three sessions. And I think (don’t quote me on this) it’s something like three weeks apart.
RCH: Right, okay. Maybe we intuited things the same way.
CW: Yeah.
RCH: It’s a promising time.
CW: Yeah, it is. I’m sorry, we’ve come to time and I don’t want to chew up any more of yours. You’ve been very generous. And just once again [nervously laughs]… See, I used to be very reactive. When I’d say things like this, it was impossible not to get choked up and I’m kind of struggling to be a good representative here, but honestly, it’s [holding back tears]… quite a life.
RCH: Yeah, I hear you Court.
CW: I took mine [psilocybin-assisted therapy] 10 days before the lockdown in New York City. I can’t imagine… I’ve been inside with my boys for a year. I can’t imagine what would have happened if it had been the placebo…
Anything in closing? And also I should [mention], Kyle and Joe, and now Michelle, at Psychedelics Today, were extraordinarily welcoming. They’ve created such an incredible community with so much information there, and really a very broad spectrum. This brings in a very large tent of people. But any final thoughts to offer or anything that’s emerged from the studies in terms of like, lateral effects that have surprised you or anything like that? I’m fascinated to see what else is going to be changed by this quality of openness being enhanced. Because that really, that’s so many things besides just like, no longer being locked in iterative rumination. It’s a whole spectrum of life possibilities and cultural assumptions.
RCH: Yeah. There’s a lot of other measures in the paper, the secondary measures. The REBUS model has a focus more on the relaxing of the top-down, but when you talk to people, often the pertinent statement is, “The things that came up.” I think that’s an important space to get a better handle on in the future. What is that? You know, what is that mechanistically, “The things that come up”? I’d love to understand that better. I mean, I’m mechanistically minded, so I tend to go there.
But it’s been wonderful to chat to you and I very much am moved by what you told me. And I’m so pleased that you’ve had the experience that you’ve had, and it’s helped you as it has. It’s wonderful to hear that. It makes it all worthwhile, what we’re all doing.
This interview has been edited for clarity and grammar.
About the Author
Court Wing has been a professional in the performance and rehab space for the last 30 years. Coming from a performing and martial arts background, Court served as a live-in apprentice to the US Chief Instructor for Ki-Aikido for five years, going on to win the gold medal for the International Competitors Division in Japan in 2000 and achieving the rank of 3rd degree black belt. In 2004, Court became the co-founder of New York’s largest and oldest crossfit gym, and has been featured in the New York Times, Sunday Routine, Men’s Fitness, and USA Today. He is also a certified Z-Health Master Trainer, using the latest interventions in applied neuro-physiology for remarkable improvements in pain, performance, and rehabilitation. You can find out more on his website: https://courtwing.com .
In this episode, Kyle interviews licensed professional counselor specializing in somatics and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, regular contributor toNavigating Psychedelics, and vinyl DJ (who DJed our 5th-anniversary party), Pierre Bouchard.
Bouchard digs into the art of somatics and the importance of adding it as another tool to the data set of one’s healing practice, and discusses how many people don’t yet understand how to interpret (or even define) these sensations, how learning to tune in to bodily sensations can often reveal what needs to be worked on before other therapeutic modalities can, and how physical touch and working with the body create an ethical dilemma. And he breaks down the polyvagal theory and how different types of trauma affect the nervous system and its go-to “fight, flight, or freeze” actions.
They also talk about the top-down and bottom-up approach, Holotropic Breathwork and Stan Grof, dissociation and ketamine, what they’d like to see in the future of therapy, and more. This is a conversation between two counselors, so if you’re behind on therapeutic modalities and concepts, this episode is for you.
Notable Quotes
“When we’re talking about learning to tune into body sensations, we’re really helping somebody develop a new language, a new way of understanding themselves. …It’s not that things weren’t happening and now they are, it’s that they’re learning how to tune into it.”
“Before our conscious mind catches something, often, our body catches it. And we might have a belief about ourselves that then, when we actually tune into body sensations, we find out there’s actually something different going on here. To me, that’s the deep beauty of this; is that you can be intellectually cut off from an experience or belief or just something about yourself, but the body doesn’t lie. The body has no stake in negotiating. The body’s just interested in the truth.”
“There’s a way in which so much of our wounding is about what did or didn’t happen and getting a chance to have some reparative experience around that. Finding out that you’re God and that everyone else is God; it might help that journey, but it’s not going to heal that knot in your nervous system.” “We’re learning to be more interested in our own experience. I think this is something that psychedelics are so fantastic at. We start to have a much greater range of who we are and what’s possible. I can be screaming and raging, I can be crying, I can be in ecstatic bliss. …The psychedelic life, in this way, is about continuing to learn to be a more rich meal.”
Pierre Bouchard is a Licensed Professional Counselor with a private practice in Boulder and Denver, CO. He specializes in blending somatics, embodiment, attachment theory, and trauma therapy with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. A graduate of Naropa University (in Contemplative Psychotherapy), he has trained in several somatic psychotherapy modalities, most recently the Hakomi Method under Melissa Grace, and currently, in Ido Portal’s movement system at Boulder Movement Collective. He has maintained a meditation practice for 19 years, is working on opening a ketamine clinic, and in his spare time, works as a vinyl DJ.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Joe, Kyle, and Michelle analyze the most interesting stories of the week, this time a bit differently (and maybe a first for PT), with Kyle and Michelle recording together in the same room.
They first revisit last week’s Senate Bill 519 news from the angle of how the media keeps misrepresenting the clear distinction between ‘legal’ and ‘decriminalized,’ spawned from a PR email Michelle received and two different articles with opposing language between their titles and the articles themselves. Is this disconnect coming from confusion about what decriminalization actually means, or is it purposefully done for more attention-grabbing headlines, which serves to only put more people in danger? Or are these media sources in bed with the feds and doing it exactly for that reason? (Always nice to get a visit from Joe’s Paranoid Update.)
They then discuss the absurdity of cannabis still being federally illegal and sending people to prison while Washington State and Arizona use federal funds to buy joints for people getting the Covid vaccination, which leads to a discussion of Covid, vaccinations, trusting the government, and the possible threat of a new bird flu.
And lastly, they look at what happened to a man who took an estimated 40,000 ecstasy pills over the course of 9 years, and why a huge focus of harm reduction should be on moderation and how overuse can negatively impact your life, the importance of honestly reflecting on your relationship with drugs, how you’re growing (or not) from huge insights, and how realistic or fulfilling your intentions are to begin with.
Notable Quotes
“Let’s just move cannabis from Schedule I to Schedule IV or de-schedule it, because we’re already at this point where the government is buying people joints to get vaccinated, yet it’s still federally a Schedule I substance. It kind of blows my mind. What is happening?” -Michelle
“When science gets politicized, things get ugly, and this isn’t the first time science has been politicized. So let’s be on Team Human. Be on Team Psychedelic, Harm Reduction, Legalize and Regulate (if you want to jump on my boat), but let’s just get on the right path here towards a future that’s better for all of us. That should be apolitical. And yes, there’s plenty to complain about, but let’s survive first.” -Joe
“We need to talk about moderation when we talk about harm reduction. I think that when we just talk about psychedelics for medical use and we ignore all the folks that are using them outside of a clinician’s office, we just ignore all the circumstances that they need to be educated on, like [that they] can harm people. I think, for me anyway, part of harm reduction for psychedelics is really teaching folks that yea, they’re safe, but if you use them sparingly. It doesn’t matter what it is- MDMA, acid, mushrooms- I think that even when you start using them once a week (in fuller doses), shit can get a little complicated.” -Michelle
“Sometimes I think what we want is unrealistic, like: ‘I want to be totally healed, I want to be a totally different person, and I’m just going to keep going in until I find it.’ You’re never going to find that because that’s just not how it works.” -Michelle
“Is there guilt and shame around taking breaks if you’re really embedded in these psychedelic communities? I know I felt that at one point. Somebody was like, ‘Wait, you haven’t done that in a while?’ I’m like, ‘No, I’ve been really focused on a lot of integration and family relationship-type stuff, and it feels like a psychedelic experience to begin with and I need to kind of focus on that right now.’ And it was like, ‘Oh, then you’re not doing the work.’ And it’s like, ‘Actually, I feel like I am doing the work. This is the work I don’t want to be doing, but I’m trying to show up for it.’ It’s like, do you always need to keep peeling the onion layer back?” -Kyle
The psychedelic space has an abuse problem, but how do we resolve it? Community accountability and transformative justice can help.
In the past few years, the global psychedelic community has weathered countless ruptures as patterns of problematic behavior have come to light. While calls for accountability have been increasing, we have yet to establish frameworks and processes that support it. Such are the challenges of a decentralized, citizen-powered movement: It is as diverse and situational as the psychedelic experience itself, and accountability is not a one size fits all process. The ways we approach massive, powerful institutions often look very different from the ways we approach those in our immediate social groups.
We have seen sexual assault in underground healing environments and leaders aligning with sexual predators. We’ve witnessed the shameless commodification of ceremonial practices and silencing of voices championing equity and diversity. We can also be sure that more issues are just around the bend. They are bound to surface as the movement grows and we attempt to create practical systems for accountability that can keep up with this rapid expansion.
The mainstream paradigm of accountability is rooted in the legal system. It is centered around the concept of penalty—simply put, if someone breaks the law or a societal contract, they will be punished, often by being removed from community or being made to experience the same pain and suffering they have caused. Justice is seen as a contract between the individual and the state, and harm is defined by legal institutions. It can be static, rigid, and lacking nuance. Among the many issues with this punitive model is the simple fact that the needs and experiences of survivors and those impacted are often an afterthought. In addition, punishment does little to prevent further harm, rehabilitate the person responsible, or address the underlying conditions which contributed to the event.
If we don’t dedicate ourselves to a new vision of accountability while the psychedelic movement is still relatively small, the fallout and damage could be much greater. We are in a world where cancelling and punishing people is our main choice for dealing with harms. If we want to be a culture built on the cornerstones of healing and relationship, we will need to find ways to embody these values in our approach to accountability.
By modeling clear, compassionate, and dialogue-based systems for accountability, we can prevent the invasive seedlings of harm from growing into weeds which choke out the entire garden of psychedelic healing.
The Opportunity
It’s high time for us to circle up, from our smallest pods to our largest public forums, and form agreements on how we are going to show up as a movement to destigmatize and create safer access to psychedelics. What are our core values, and how do we bring them to life? How do we, as a global community, intend to prevent and respond to situations of harm and abuse? We need to define our agreements and put them into practice at home. Whatever we create together in the microcosm will determine what takes shape in the large scale later on.
In the past few years, I have been involved in many behind-the-scenes conversations where I have been earnestly warned about problematic individuals and organizations in the psychedelic scene. I have been given firsthand accounts of behaviors ranging from ethically questionable to outright violent and predatory.
Perhaps this secretive dynamic is a reflection of the social contract around psychedelics. While the space is splintered, we share a broad collective cause—one that is just beginning to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the government and general public—and thus, we have a call to protect one another. This is a community which generally understands the potential legal and reputational ramifications of outing anyone who is a part of the psychedelic underground for bad behavior. But are we more loyal to the movement for psychedelic access itself, or the people who have been harmed within it?
Over and over, when I hear these accounts, the same questions arise for me:
Have we brought these concerns to the person in question? Is mycelial, grapevine-style dialogue the best way to establish safety amongst ourselves? There must be a better way forward which could actually interrupt patterns of damage and promote reconciliation. I fear that our current non-confrontational approach allows problematic behavior to continue due to our own unwillingness to address it head on.
In addition, each person with this insider knowledge must now carry the burden of sorting out what to do with it. Should I warn everyone I know? Should I approach the person directly? How do we get to the truth of a situation, and at what point (if any) should these truths be made public? Who gets to decide? When should someone be muted, removed from a position of leadership, or barred from participating in community? How do we set terms for their reentry?
These are difficult questions that we need to explore together and within ourselves. Though it is more laborious and does nothing to satisfy our own sense of self-righteousness, there are ways to address problems without calling someone out, cancelling them, or permanently destroying their reputation. The challenge is that each situation is different, so developing a formulaic approach for an entire movement is impossible.
It’s no secret that psychedelics are going mainstream. We have an opportunity to set the tone and shape the culture of this movement by how we conduct ourselves amongst one another, how we cultivate community and how we organize our institutions and advocacy efforts. By modeling clear, compassionate, and dialogue-based systems for accountability, we can prevent the invasive seedlings of harm from growing into weeds which choke out the entire garden of psychedelic healing.
Recently, North Star, a new psychedelic nonprofit, launched the first widespread code of ethics for psychedelic practitioners and organizations, based on input from 100 stakeholders in the field. The seven principles in the North Star pledge are:
Start within
Study the traditions
Build trust
Consider the gravity
Focus on process
Create equality & justice
Pay it forward
These values can serve as guiding lights and a first step toward a culture of accountability. The problem with voluntary creeds like this one is that they are mostly symbolic in nature. Without a clear way to vet those who are self-associating with the pledge, there is no way to know whether someone’s public commitment is deeply rooted or performative. We don’t actually know what an individual or an organization is made of until they have been involved for a while and have been given space to act, connect, contribute, and most likely, be under a little pressure.
Ultimately, the nature of accountability is relational. The act of uncovering messy truths and the challenging processes of responsibility often happens at kitchen tables and park benches, not board rooms and convention stages.
Fortunately, we don’t have to reinvent the wheel. The psychedelic community may be new to the justice discussion, but leaders from other disciplines such as Emergent Strategy, mutual aid networks, and prison diversion programs have spent many years engaging with the messy, daily practice of addressing and repairing harm. We would be wise to learn from these leaders. If we do, the psychedelic field will be better off for it.
What Is Accountability?
The basis of accountability is simple: When damage has been done, there is a healing process that needs to take place. At its most basic, accountability is a cycle of harm, recognition, and repair.
But before we can talk about holding one another accountable, it’s essential that we each develop the practice of holding ourselves accountable. It’s hard, lifelong work to take responsibility for our actions and their impacts; it requires us to labor through our own barriers to receiving critique. Only once we get past our own denial, fragility, and excuses can we reach a place of acknowledgment and growth. While reconciliation isn’t always guaranteed, self-responsibility can open the door to remaining in community after harm has been caused. This long-term work rarely happens in isolation—it happens in our homes, partnerships, friendships, professional collaborations, and within the larger movements we champion.
Accountability takes many different forms.
Self-accountability, which is about as sexy as steamed kale, begins with identifying our values. It asks each of us to recognize that we live in an interconnected world in which our actions have immediate and indirect impacts. Once we have clarified our value system, we must then cultivate the practice of tracking whether or not our behavior is aligned with these values. But we all have blind spots; this is why we need community.
Interpersonal accountability can be enticing. On one hand, there’s some primal part of us that feeds off of scandalous news when someone in the community goes rogue. There is an impulse to see folks who are doing damage taken down; perhaps witnessing these takedowns makes us feel superior. Maybe punishment creates an illusion of safety, or at least, demonstrates that the community has boundaries and agreements we can all lean on. The responsibility here is to ensure that before we expend energy confronting others about their behavior, we check ourselves. We need to ask: “Am I the best person, and is this the best time, to call this person in? Is there inner work that I am responsible for at this moment? And importantly, am I ready to participate in a process without doing further damage?”
Then there’s institutional accountability—the fantasy we can’t seem to get enough of. Mainstream media publishes pieces vilifying Compass Pathways and ATAI Sciences, and we eat it up and express our outrage on comment threads and podcasts. Perhaps this is because it is easy to see large corporations as faceless, evil monsters to rail against. But again, we have to go deeper—who is leading these organizations? What worldviews and assumptions are they operating under? What wounds might be beneath the problematic behaviors we love to hate? And importantly, what are the ugly parts within ourselves that are so uncomfortably reflected in their behaviors?
Within a movement like the psychedelic resurgence, accountability becomes a long term process of choosing to stay in relationship. We set out to do this while understanding that as flawed humans, we will certainly hurt one another and we need clear agreements, safety parameters, and systems for repair. While it isn’t always safe or possible to keep people in community who have done harm, it is a pursuit which can create more opportunity for long-term healing than the scorched-earth mentality of punishment and eradication.
When reimagining the idea of safety within community, there are two terms that are often used interchangeably: restorative and transformative justice. While they are related, they have key differences.
The United Nations Working Group on Restorative Justice (RJ) defines it this way: “A process whereby parties with a stake in a particular offense resolve collectively how to deal with the aftermath of the offence and its implications for the future. In essence, we seek to repair the harms caused by crime and violence.” The process seeks to restore the conditions that were present before a harm took place. RJ efforts often work in tandem with local judicial systems. Check out these firsthand accounts of the accountability process from Restorative Justice Victoria.
Transformative Justice (TJ) goes even deeper. It seeks to address the context in which harms occurred and, through a community-centered approach, catalyze long-term shifts in the very fabric of society. This can serve to not only prevent harm, but to create conditions that lead to healing and thriving, as well.
For years, transformative justice efforts have been a part of the movement toward building healthier, more intact communities and reducing the reliance on policing as our only means of creating safety. It is a holistic approach which focuses first on resourcing the victims/survivors of harm, who are often erased within the punitive justice system. Rehabilitating the person responsible is a secondary consideration, in the spirit of prevention. In addition, it holds an eye toward the source and root cause of the harm, rather than treating individual situations as isolated incidents. This enables us to make systematic shifts which can ultimately ripple outward and help reshape the culture of our communities as a whole.
Transformative justice understands that the harms we inflict upon one another are the downstream effects of larger dysfunctions within our society. They may stem from a culture shaped by scarcity, disconnection, domination, and generational trauma. In order to truly prevent harms from repeating, we have to transform the underlying issues and the belief structures that uphold them.
Interrogating our community standards and assumptions, strengthening interdependence, and addressing the root causes of harm are at the heart of transformative justice.
Benefits of the Transformative Justice Approach
Enables intervention before small harms and patterns escalate into major problems
Centers the needs and experiences of survivors or those impacted
It enables all involved to increase their capacity for clear communication, generative conflict, and ownership of responsibility
It creates opportunity for the person who has done harm to reflect on and understand the impact of their actions
It requires an actionable plan for repair
It cultivates greater safety, resilience and trust within the community
Limitations of Transformative Justice
Accountability processes sometimes happen months or years after an incident has occurred
Defining repair is much harder when death or major damage has occured
Results are slower and more systemic (we have to be invested in the long view)
Confrontation can be extremely uncomfortable
Those who are confronted cannot be coerced into accountability processes
Making amends doesn’t often have a clear timeline or resolution
Community involvement over time is required
Potential Misuse of Transformative Justice
People who aren’t committed to their inner work may harness the language or tools of accountability in an attempt to control situations or deflect culpability
People may repeat serious harms over time and rely on the optics of transformative justice to save face when held accountable
Those invested in upholding existing power structures may discourage efforts toward transformative justice, as it is rooted in systemic change
What If We Are All Responsible?
There is a tempting, self-righteous satisfaction in punishing or cancelling people we view as problematic. Part of why punitive systems exist within our society is because they allow us to rely on a convenient binary. When we frame complex situations in right/wrong, good/bad, or involved/not involved, we get a free pass to look the other way. Effectively, we absolve ourselves of the nuanced and laborious process of conflict transformation.
Community based approaches to healing can have major benefits, but they require work. If the goal of accountability is to interrupt cycles of harm and create long term vitality in our communities, we must also work to create healthier systems at the root level. This reimagining takes all of us. In an interview with the Barnard Center for Research On Women, Esteban Kelly, co-founder of AORTA (Anti-Oppression Resource & Training Alliance), put it this way:
“[Transformative justice] distributes the culpability a bit. Which isn’t to say it is even, but everyone holds some amount. What environment enabled the silencing to go on, such that this pattern was able to continue until a crisis? What allowed things to escalate? What were the subtle hints around male supremacy, sexism, white supremacy, or different forms of class power that gave people hidden messages that this was acceptable or that we’re not going to intervene?”
Steps of Accountability in Transformative Justice
Transformative justice acknowledges that there are no quick fixes to complex problems. Calling someone in is a first step, but there is no way of knowing how they will respond. Given the complex dynamics which can often lead to damaging behavior, it is possible that someone will refuse to participate in peacemaking efforts. If they are willing, however, a loose framework can look this way:
Identifying the harm: A problematic behavior or pattern is identified, either by the individual, someone affected, or the surrounding community.
Calling in: The person in question is called in. (Learn about the differences between calling in and calling out here.) If you are called in, it may take some time to wade through your initial reaction and emotional activation, but ultimately, see if you can receive the call to accountability as a loving act. You are being invited to change a behavior instead of being rejected because of it.
Taking responsibility: Feeling badly or saying sorry isn’t enough here. True accountability requires that we take responsibility for our actions and identify where we had freedom of choice when we may have felt we had no options.
Commitment to repair: The person responsible dedicates themself to repairing the harms that were caused.
Clarifying agreements and actionable steps: Ideally, those impacted will be involved in the decision making process around what repair should look like. The more specific you can be, the better. For example, if the person responsible is in leadership, do they need to be asked to step down from their platform for a set period of time? If someone has harmed another person in the community directly, do they need to help cover the cost of healing services?
Following up and ongoing relationship: This is where the rubber meets the road. Change takes time, and the process is not linear. To fulfill agreements and develop new habits, people need to be held in community while also keeping those who have been harmed safe.
The above model is not a hard and fast formula, but more of a roadmap through common situations. Sometimes, harm is so deep and shattering that basic steps toward repair may seem simplistic. For example, what if someone dies during an underground medicine retreat or a clinical trial? Worse, what if there are efforts to conceal or rewrite the narrative of what has happened? When facing situations where loss of life has occurred, the family of the deceased must be heard and empowered to define what efforts toward repair feel supportive on their own terms.
But, what if the person in question refuses to accept responsibility? What if the survivor or person impacted has no interest in being a part of an accountability process? Can Transformative Justice principles still serve when the process is less tidy?
I spoke with Esteban Kelly about his perspectives on creating a culture of accountability within movements. In addition to being a co-founder and worker-owner of AORTA Co-op, he also spent fifteen years as a volunteer member of Philly Stands Up!, a community-based transformative justice collective which worked directly with people who caused harm in sexual assault situations. Through PSU!, Kelly amplified the lessons of transformative justice to help local communities navigate scenarios of interpersonal harm and healing.
“If someone won’t be accountable, we are not going to do something coercive, contribute to call-out culture, or publicly shame them. We ask survivors, please don’t do a public take-down of this person; we’re not calling to cancel people. Instead, we might suggest that communities mute them or say they should not be platformed, but we ultimately want to draw people back into networks of trust. We want to direct resources and coaching to them so they are more capable of the change those around them know they need.”
Developing Muscle Memory in the Accountability Process
Accountability is a process, not an end point we arrive at. It requires acknowledging and taking responsibility for the harm that’s been caused, making amends however possible, and taking steps to change behavior so the harm does not continue. This requires that we develop skills in introspection, communication and sitting with discomfort. It requires us to ask, “What are the actions I can take to make things as right as possible, given that I can’t go back and undo what was done?”
Theoretically, these practices could transfer seamlessly into the psychedelic community. Is this a utopian vision, or is there hope for a lasting, truly just psychedelic movement that doesn’t self-destruct during its ascent? That depends on how committed we are to the process of change, first within ourselves and our immediate circles. Kelly offers up the long view:
“This rhythm of theory, action, and reflection has to be iterative and constantly evolving. What are we trying to do at a societal level if we can’t even figure it out in our own communities? These small exercises are maps and instructions for how we can reprogram things at a larger scale.
“Transformative justice doesn’t really make sense until you are involved in testing it out and applying it in the laboratory of your life. Testing it out in low-stake situations will help these concepts make sense. Then, when the going gets tough, you have muscle memory to handle more difficult scenarios.
“There’s a certain role that everyday facilitators and community organizers can play. Right now, that is where the gap is. So, how can we rise to the occasion ourselves to take these skills that seem professionalized and translate them into everyday skills? Transformative justice is not about running social services through non-profits and institutions. Those may be effective for other things, but there’s something else that can happen in a less codified way, in these intimate TJ settings, and that’s the change we’re trying to achieve.”
In other words, change begins at home. We’ve got to redefine justice on a personal level and learn to be accountable for ourselves and our immediate circles before we’re ready to make institutional change. Here are a few places to start:
Accountability: What Each Of Us Can Do Right Now
Invite mentors and elders into your life
Commit to a practice of brutally honest personal reflection
Get in touch with your body. Notice what comes up when you feel guilty, ashamed, threatened, accused, or misunderstood. Notice these emotions in minor situations and develop tools for managing them
Practice rupture and repair cycles in personal relationships
Learn how to apologize effectively
Develop capacity for uncomfortable conversations
Ask your peers for feedback
Create a culture of radical honesty & authenticity in your relationships
Practice following through on your commitments
Enlist a specific set of trusted “tough love” peers to be in close proximity and call you in when needed
How do we choose the right people to be our inner circle of accountability? Kelly lays out some considerations.
“It might not be your best friend. It might be your coworker, sibling, or neighbor. It’s more about the quality of the relationship than the quantity of people. Who do you share a depth of trust with? Where are the spaces in your life where you can receive direct feedback? The broken conditions of the world can feed into our ideas of victimization and defensiveness.
“When you’re activated, you may not be able to really hear critique. But who can, despite all of this, hang in there through the worst of the hurdles you put up; to have compassion for your human experience and essentially bear hug you into accountability? Who can say: ‘Yes, you can scream, cry, yell, etc. I’m able to hear your initial round of deflection and excuses. I may or may not validate them. But now that that’s off your chest, can you get to a place where you’re able to listen? It may be weeks or months later, but I’ll be here as a support person.’”
Healing For Our Descendants
The theory of transformation is one thing; the embodied, lived experience of it is something else entirely. As many of us can attest, the cosmic downloads we receive during a psychedelic experience may be profound, but the real magic happens as we integrate these insights into our lives. The same is true for accountability: Documentaries, books, and philosophy of change are solid starting points, but they carry with them a call to integrate this new knowledge meaningfully into our lives.
Integrity begins within ourselves, then expands into our relationships, our networks, and ultimately, as an extension, perhaps even the global community. Just as raindrops fill a stream, streams feed into rivers, and rivers become the ocean, it’s impossible to separate the individual from the collective.
How long might it take to really see a shift we envision? When will accountability, rather than punishment, be the norm?
“Realistically, we probably need another… fifty years of actively changing.” Esteban tells me. “Keep in mind, we don’t just suddenly ‘REACH SCALE’. Society changes through gradual, and sometimes speedy, transformation, but even that takes time to take root.”
Fifty years! In the psychedelic context, when we talk about the medicine of ancestral healing, we’re not just talking about healing backwards in time. We’re also healing for our descendants. We have the opportunity to pass along a heritage more healed and intact than what we’ve inherited. Healing our ancestral lines while we’re still living will likely take our whole lifetimes; this is a beautiful, fundamental expression of accountability. We are taking what we’ve been given, understanding its roots and working to transform it.
We not only need each other, we also need to trust and be trusted. We can acknowledge the windows of opportunity before us, but let’s commit to the long path and remind one another of the healing vision and our deep belonging when the noise gets too loud or our shadows come out to play.
Rebecca Martinez is a Xicana writer, parent and community organizer born and raised in Portland, Oregon. She is a co-founder of the Fruiting Bodies Collective, an advocacy group, podcast and multimedia platform addressing the intersections between healing justice and the psychedelics movement. Rebecca served as the Event & Volunteer Coordinator for the successful Measure 109 campaign, an unprecedented state initiative which creates a legal framework for psilocybin therapy in Oregon. She is also the author of Edge Play: Tales From a Quarter Life Crisis, a memoir about psychedelic healing after family trauma, spiritual abuse, and police violence. She serves on the Health Equity Subcommittee for Oregon’s Psilocybin Advisory Board as well as the Board of Advisors for the Plant Medicine Healing Alliance.
While they start on the magic side of things with Aleister Crowley and early mescaline trip reports, they mostly discuss prohibition and new models for legalization, with Vayne giving us a nice window into how Britain has historically handled the drug war, culminating in the era of Spice bringing them to the point where essentially, anything that stimulates your nervous system has become illegal (when there is a clear intention to get high).
Vayne tells his Crowley-mirroring story about being banned from giving a presentation at the Oxford Psychedelic Society for admitting he has used drugs, poses an interesting way to consider drugs and their legality, and ponders how we can get our prohibition-obsessed authorities to not only empower people to make their own decisions, but to also accept that people do these things for fun (and that’s ok). And lastly, he talks about how psychedelics, set and setting, and practiced rituals and traditions all work together as technologies to enhance and inspire a magical experience.
Notable Quotes
“Once we use terms like ‘illegal drugs’ very frequently, it’s quite important, I think, to unpick some of that language. Drugs, in and of themselves- these chemical compounds, are not and can never be legal or illegal. What’s legal or illegal is whether or not you or I are allowed to possess those things, whether we can manufacture those things, whether we can supply or exchange those things to others. So it’s our behavior that’s about whether it’s licit or illicit, and the substances themselves are ‘controlled substances.’ So there are no illegal drugs. That betrays a misunderstanding of the way these substances are in culture.”
“We say to people: ‘You can smoke weed if you’re feeling really suicidal or if you’re feeling really very ill,’ and moving from that to a point where we can say, ‘Actually, you can smoke weed because you might like it’- that’s a radical thing for Protestant and post-Protestant cultures to go through because our relationship with joy, fun, the body, [and] material substance is deeply wounded.” “We do have to find a way to intelligently deal with the fact that we live on a planet with all of these substances, all of these medicines of various descriptions and people want to engage with those for all kinds of different reasons. We can’t simply say: ‘This is forbidden.’”
“They don’t need, necessarily, some dude in a crazy hat with feathers on it to tell them what to do, because they know that the mushrooms and the relationship between the mushrooms and their psyche and their evolutionary pathway- that’s where the power lies. …They don’t need to know what the traditional songs of their ancestors are, because this is the traditional song of them, in that moment. And it’s about feeding the flame of the tradition rather than worshipping the ashes of it. And we’re just surrounded by these broken forms and these tiny cultural clues, but with the help of other communities who’ve been less disconnected from this medicine, and also with our own guides and spirits and perhaps a good dose of good fortune, for us to recreate, re-find these things, and to make those fresh and new in every moment and every encounter- that’s the way we’ve got to go with this.”
Julian Vayne is widely recognized as one of Britain’s leading occultists. He is an independent scholar and author with over three decades of experience within esoteric culture: from Druidry to Chaos Magic, from indigenous Shamanism through to Freemasonry and Witchcraft. He is a senior member of the Magical Pact of the Illuminates of Thanateros, a co-organizer of the psychedelic conference, Breaking Convention, a Trustee of The Psychedelic Museum Project, a founding member of the post-prohibition think-tank, Transform, sits on the academic board of The Journal of Psychedelic Studies, and has been a visiting lecturer at several British universities. He is an advocate of post-prohibition culture and supporter of psychedelic prisoners through the Scales project. Julian facilitates psychedelic ceremony, as well as providing one-to-one psychedelic integration sessions and support. He is the author of Getting Higher: The Manual of Psychedelic Ceremony, and since 2011, he has been sharing his work through his blog, The Blog of Baphomet.
In this week’s Solidarity Friday episode, Joe, Michelle, and Kyle reconvene to talk about the biggest (and one of the weirdest) news stories.
They first discuss the California Senate passing Senate Bill 519, which, if enacted into law, would be the first state-wide decriminalization bill, removing criminal penalties for possession (and sharing) of psilocybin, ibogaine, LSD, and MDMA for adults. They talk about what the emerging market could look like, why harm reduction tips aren’t typically on cannabis packaging, and an interesting poll that showed that 35% of Americans now believe in the therapeutic potential of psilocybin (most surprisingly illustrated by a former sheriff in Florida publically stating his support).
They then discuss the recent news of the federal government ending a 50-year contract with the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) that only allowed researchers to use cannabis from one approved facility (and the absurdity of this roadblock impeding research into such a commonly-used drug for so long), a New York Times opinion piece on the life-saving potential of ketamine and all the unmentioned variables that can affect its efficacy, and last but certainly not least: An article about cicadas being infected and zombified into decomposing, sex-crazed maniacs by a fungus that produces cathinone (which we know synthetically as “bath salts”), and even more interestingly, psilocybin. And if you’re thinking it, we feel it must be said that it’s likely not wise to attempt to trip off of discarded cicada butts.
Notable Quotes
“What’s the point of cicadas spreading a psilocybin-containing fungus all over the East coast right now? It feels a little intentional on nature’s part.” -Michelle “[There was a] $2.1 billion merger in Florida of two grows recently. How do we square these things? We can do capitalism, but we can’t do research.” -Joe “All these states legalizing for recreational/medical, and it’s like, as a country and people/society, don’t you want good data around products that you’re selling? And if the research isn’t there, how are we making good decisions? It just seems really counterintuitive that you’re just letting it run wild to some degree, but then also being like, ‘Well, we can’t study this because it’s a Schedule I and we still have to follow all of this.” Like, no wait, people are doing this. Don’t you want good data and [to] keep people safe?” -Kyle
“Are we short-changing humanity in the progress of science by only accepting randomized controlled trials as the gold standard of data? Are there things that are more cost-effective and quicker? Like, let’s test 20 drugs and skip placebos so we have data on 20 drugs, as opposed to like, how much more data do we need on placebo as part of RCTs? While RCTs are amazing, there’s a lot of drugs left to test.” -Joe
“These are articles being published, and so, how honest are we being about our own process, and what actually gets published? I could sit there and present you a really great story about my near-death experience and how it really changed my life and how it motivated me to do all this stuff and my psychedelic experience helped me to process my trauma and I went to school, and I could show you all the highlights, but how many of us are actually showing the trenches of our reality, and the descent into those valleys?” -Kyle
In this episode, Joe interviews co-founders of the charity, Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS): Executive Director, Amber, and Chair of the board and former Navy SEAL, Marcus Capone.
They talk about Marcus’ transition back to normal life after 13 years in the service, and his “fizzling out,” depression, cognitive decline, and uneventful trips to brain clinics, followed by a life-changing experience with ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT in a ceremony outside the US- something that, at the time, was very new and very scary but seen as a last resort. They talk about what he learned from his experience, the improvements they’ve seen in the people they’ve helped, why they call their grants “foundational healing grants,” and how the current psychedelic renaissance is missing a key element in the power of psychedelics: that maybe the issues we are working to try and heal (and their solutions) may be more physiological than we realize.
VETS has raised the money to provide grants to 300 veterans (and some spouses as well), and aims to do more, as they are currently working with the Stanford Brian Simulation Lab on a brain imaging study to investigate the potential physiological improvements from ibogaine.
Notable Quotes
“I was spending a lot of quiet time, just praying and thinking, and I remembered that one of our friends had gone outside of the US. And I didn’t even know what it was- I didn’t know anything about psychedelics, I didn’t know anything about ibogaine. I didn’t know anything other than someone we trusted was having a similar set of challenges and found relief through something crazy.” -Amber “I don’t think you can explain psychedelics, what it does. You’re opening your brain, really. You’re tapping into higher levels of consciousness that you just can’t explain to others unless you do it. And then the majority of people that do it [and] do it the correct way, they’re changed forever.” -Marcus
“It just creates this happiness that’s contagious, and it makes everyone else around them want to perform at that level as well. I know that I can say that for myself, and the shift in our family dynamic, and whether it’s our relationship with our kids, to our kids also setting goals and attaining them- that’s a real thing. There’s so much healing happening beyond just the veteran that we’re supporting.” -Amber “What we’ve come to realize, and what I personally feel, is that vulnerability is actually the greatest show of strength.” -Amber
“I feel like if we can really put our heads down and add to the body of research so that we can advocate for these therapies to be available inside the borders of the country that these veterans chose to defend, then we can not only help them in a more meaningful way, we can end the veteran suicide epidemic, and hopefully these therapies will be available to all Americans in due time, because they really are saving lives.” -Amber
When he was medically retired after 13 years and multiple combat deployments as a US Navy SEAL, Marcus Capone started experiencing an escalating myriad of challenges, including depression, isolation, cognitive impairment, excessive alcohol use, headaches, insomnia, and impulsivity. Marcus was diagnosed with PTSD, and later, TBI. When all hope seemed lost, his wife, Amber, learned of a new kind of treatment, and Marcus traveled outside of the US to receive treatment with Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, to tremendous results.
This experience inspired them to co-found the non-profit, Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS) in 2019, which has since provided grants for hundreds of US Special Forces veterans to receive psychedelic-assisted therapy treatment, as well as preparation and integration coaching. VETS believes that psychedelic therapy can lay the foundation for further healing. This “foundational healing” enables continued progress across a range of therapeutic modalities, and is supported by a robust coaching program, providing a holistic treatment solution for veterans.
What is “moral injury” and how might psychedelics help?
Moral injury refers to the biopsychosocial-spiritual suffering stemming from participating, witnessing, or learning about events that transgress one’s deeply held moral beliefs (Litz et al., 2009; Shay, 2004). Moral injury is not a new construct, and the idea of a “soul wound” has long been evident in the writings of Homer and Plato. However, over the past 15 to 20 years, the term moral injury has resurged as a focus within the field of clinical psychology and psychiatry. At the same time, psychedelics are similarly experiencing a renaissance. Is this mere coincidence or an indication of a deeper underlying process at play? How might psychedelics hold promise for healing moral injury?
Moral injury is not a psychiatric diagnosis (Farnsworth et al., 2017; Jinkerson, 2016), but it can include feelings of guilt, shame, anger, disgust, and sadness, thoughts of personal regret and systemic failures, and avoidance and self-handicapping behaviors (Ang, 2017). Considered to be more “syndromal” than “normative” moral pain, moral injury is associated with significant impairment in relational, health, and occupational functioning as demonstrated by poorer trajectories in these areas (e.g., Maguen et al., 2020; Purcell et al., 2016).
Although the two often co-exist, moral injury is distinct from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). While PTSD is largely rooted in and characterized by fear-based conceptualizations (i.e., focus on life threat, victimization) and symptoms, moral injury is rooted in perpetration, complicity, and betrayal and characterized by moral emotions (guilt, shame, spiritual conflict). Largely studied in the context of military experiences (see Griffin et al., 2019 for review), researchers have bifurcated morally injurious events into transgressions (by others and self) and betrayal (Bryan et al., 2016; Nash et al. 2013). However, morally injurious events are not limited to certain people or contexts, but rather range widely (e.g., killing in combat, deciding which COVID-19 patient gets a ventilator in resource-poor settings, witnessing police violence against people of color, being ordered to break rules of engagement, institutional betrayal in sexual assault cases) (e.g., Badenes-Ribera et al., 2020; Smith & Freyd, 2013; Litam & Balkin, 2021).
In my professional experience, those who experience moral injury stemming from transgression they themselves committed (either through action or inaction) can often carry deeply painful thoughts of “being a monster” and often engage in various forms of self-punishment and isolation in order to “protect others from themselves.” Most often, self-forgiveness feels like “letting oneself off the hook” for what was done, which is unacceptable. This deep sense of accountability, of course, reflects the actual inherent goodness and strong moral compass within the individual. Those who have experienced betrayal and transgression by others may find it especially difficult to trust people, carrying deep existential wounds about the goodness of humanity. However, most often, those struggling with moral injury have experienced all three of these types of wounds to various extents.
Moral injury is in essence a social wound, predicated on the morals and values constructed and shaped by communities and society (Scheder, Mahapatra, and Miller, 1987; DePrince, & Gleaves, 2007; Litam & Balkin, 2021). But how does one heal a social wound? Evidence based treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), a related ailment, yield underwhelming efficacy especially in veterans, with up to 60% not experiencing meaningful improvement (Steenkamp, Litz, & Marmar, 2020). One reason for this may be that these approaches are not adequately addressing moral injuries within traumatic stress responses. Interestingly, the mental health field generally tries not to discuss morals, and yet it is clear that trauma and suffering are inextricable from morality. The false assumption of moral neutrality is deeply damaging and has allowed the mental health field to largely bypass the “moral” nature of trauma, war, and discrimination.
Relatively antithetical to current PTSD treatments, individuals struggling with moral injury need the moral violations acknowledged and held, rather than cognitively restructured away. Even in our approaches to healing, the Western mental health field places high value on the role of the individual as both the source of the problem and the solution, rather than the collective or society. In other words, it’s an individual’s “problem” and it’s on them to do the work to “heal themselves.” Much of current research is an exemplar of this through attempts to pinpoint just what’s wrong in the person’s biology, thinking, or feeling that leads them to be this way rather than searching for and acknowledging the larger truth that often trauma is a form of societal abandonment.
Thus, moral injury has been shied away from at least in part because it requires us to collectively acknowledge and take responsibility for the traumas that happen and their moral roots. Indeed, more often than not, those with transgression by self-related moral injury withhold these experiences from the therapist out of fear of moral judgment. People are often unsure if the person can confront and hold the truths of war and the dark side of humanity without restructuring it away. The same is often true for transgressions by others and betrayal related to racial trauma. However, to heal moral injury necessitates that we carry our share of the weight by confronting the social responsibility we have for each other. In other words, to move through moral injury, a society must actively incorporate and care for their individuals.
Individuals struggling with moral injury need the moral violations acknowledged and held, rather than cognitively restructured away.
Indeed, a recent groundbreaking study in warriors from Turkana, a non-Western, small-scale society, showed the robust buffering effects of having explicitly moral-affirming cultural norms, social responsibility, and integration (Zefferman & Matthew, 2021). This is in line with recent efforts to incorporate community healing ceremonies into treatment for veterans. For example, Cenkner, Yeomans, Antal, and Scott (2020) found a ceremony in which veterans shared testimony on their moral injury with the general public significantly decreased depression, and improved self-compassion, spiritual struggles, personal growth, and psychological functioning. These findings provide preliminary evidence of the healing potential of communitas for moral injury, which is where psychedelics come in.
Psychedelics may create the opportunity for individuals to connect with the prosocial sense of communitas inherent in us all. Psychedelic compounds including empathogens (e.g., MDMA), classic psychedelics (e.g., psilocybin, LSD, ayahuasca), and dissociatives (e.g., ketamine) may provide both the context and content needed to treat moral injury. Psychedelics have the ability to “reopen” critical windows to feelings, thoughts, perceptions, and sensations previously blocked by the ego’s well-intended presence (Brouwer & Carhart-Harris, 2020). Psychedelics induce interactive neural and neuromodular effects across whole brain systems (Carhart-Harris & Friston, 2019), which translate to a context in which rigid patterns of thinking, relating, and feeling are relaxed, allowing for more psychological flexibility (Davis, Barrett, & Griffiths, 2020).
Beyond providing the flexible ego-relaxed context, psychedelics may also “naturally” generate the content for treating moral injury and PTSD. Unlike evidence-based therapies, psychedelic-assisted therapies use non-directive approaches and although there is certainly preparation, there is no way to “enforce” what material is covered during dosing sessions. Despite this, evidence across numerous studies reveals psilocybin and other classic psychedelics consistently incline users toward confronting traumatic material and salient autobiographical memories, which relate self through past, present, and future (i.e., self-definition, expectations) (Camlin et al., 2018; Gasser et al., 2015; Malone et al., 2018; Watts et al., 2017). This is representative of the innate healing wisdom within each person. Much like how the body’s cells know what to do when a physical wound happens, the psyche on psychedelics appears to be naturally directed to the wound, toward confronting suppressed traumatic material, and limiting self-other concepts in need of healing.
There has been no empirical investigation to date into the use of empathogens (e.g., MDMA) or classic psychedelics as a treatment for moral injury. However, MDMA has been extensively studied as a treatment for PTSD, with very promising efficacy in reducing symptoms in combat veterans (Mithoefer et al., 2018). Announced this year, Drs. Amy Lehmer and Rachel Yehuda at the Bronx VA will be conducting a study using MDMA to treat moral injury in veterans (Lehmer & Yehuda, 2021). MDMA holds much promise for healing moral wounds in those who served, likely through its empathogenic qualities. Of particular relevance to military populations, MDMA may facilitate moral injury recovery through increases in self-other forgiveness and self-other compassion. It may help those suffering from moral injury disclose the experiences and get unblocked from beliefs about deserving to suffer and the unacceptability of forgiveness.
To elucidate this point, I spoke with John*, a Special Operation Forces post-9/11 veteran who deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. John has also used psychedelics to treat his moral injury and PTSD.
John shared, “MDMA has allowed me to pull back from how I view the actions I took during war. I now see what I did as reactions to my environment based on the limited insights I had in a moment. The military created me, created my wolf mindset. I see now that I was just operating from how they made me. It’s given me the ability to see myself from a distanced perspective, and I can more accurately see cause and effect without judging myself. I used to view these experiences with just endless pits of guilt and shame, and now I see myself and what I did with much more compassion and forgiveness instead.”
Classic psychedelics may also provide unique benefit for moral injury through the opportunities of mystical experiences and ego-dissolution. Unlike MDMA (Holze et al., 2020), classic psychedelics can induce mystical and ego-dissolution experiences, which can include feelings of boundlessness, oneness with the larger world and reality, a sense of being eternal, and feelings of sacredness (Griffiths et al., 2008; James, Robershaw, Hoskisn, & Sessa, 2019). These experiences can foster a sense of personal meaning or purpose, often depleted in the wake of moral injury, and may offer an alternative felt sense to “feeling damaged or bad.”
The ego-relaxing effects of default mode network disruption may allow for the concept of self and others to be examined and redefined to integrate broader, more complex (e.g., “I’m a father, soldier, caretaker, friend”) versus singular organizations (e.g., “I’m a soldier”). Specific traumatic and morally injurious events can be “de-centered” or “de-weighted” from a person’s identity (Bernsten and Rubin, 2006); which could be considered akin to being able to do parts work (e.g., Jungian archetypes, Internal Family Systems). Relatedly, there is a strong body of evidence showing the effect of classic psychedelics on fostering prosocial affect and cognitions typically impoverished in moral injury such as self-other forgiveness, self-compassion, and connection (Carhart-Harris et al., 2016; MacLean et al., 2011; Pokorny et al., 2017; Preller et al., 2020; Wagner et al., 2017).
Classic psychedelic induced ego-dissolution and noetic experiences (e.g., oneness) may also aid in restructuring the “self” by highlighting our true connectedness with others, the natural world, and spirituality previously hidden by psychic pain. So often, those with moral injury report having lost their faith because what happened, or having their faith turn into solely a source of self-condemnation. Spirituality is often shied away from or at best, selectively present in the mental health field despite substantial ethical guidelines suggesting otherwise. The ubiquity of spirituality in psychedelic experiences will hopefully serve as a catalyst for the mental health field to fully incorporate this essential healing ingredient moving forward. Indeed, mystical and ego-dissolution experiences are consistently shown to be critical for positive treatment outcomes (e.g., Carhart-Harris et al., 2018; Griffiths et al., 2016; Haijen et al., 2018; Roseman, Nutt, & Carhart-Harris, 20118; Ross et al., 2016), suggesting the extent to which “I” can become “we” or “one/all” is important for alleviating psychiatric suffering. It also therefore stands to reason that both individual and group psychedelic-assisted therapies may be of particular benefit to moral injury. One could even imagine the therapeutic potential of complementing psychedelic assisted therapies with community liturgy approaches like those described above.
Consistent therapy and ritualistic medicine sessions with psychedelics has given me the ability to rise out of the grip that guilt and shame had on me. I no longer feel like I don’t deserve to have a good life.
Although there has been no investigation on moral injury to date, there is some converging supportive evidence for classic psychedelics. In gay-identified long-term AIDS survivors who had lived through many potentially morally injurious events in the 1980s and 1990s, psilocybin-assisted group therapy significantly reduced demoralization, a form of existential suffering characterized by loss of meaning, hopelessness, and poor coping (Anderson et al., 2020). Half of the sample reported reductions in demoralization of 50% or greater by the end of treatment. In people with substance misuse, psilocybin and ibogaine increase acceptance of past behavior and self-other forgiveness and reduce guilt, respectively (Bogenschutz et al., 2018; Heink, Katsikas, & Lange-Altman, 2017). Similarly, psilocybin induces realizations of being a “good person” in people with treatment resistant depression (Watts et al., 2017). These findings hint at the potential of classic psychedelics to change relationships to past wrongdoings and heal existential wounds, but experimental evidence is needed.
When asked about possible differences across types of psychedelics, John shared:
“I’ve used psilocybin, LSD, and ayahuasca for the strict purpose of working on myself. These medicines have allowed me to perceive myself, my actions/behaviors as part of the collective whole of humanity. They’ve created a sense of being a super-organism of humanity! When I got back from war, I didn’t belong. I didn’t know this world, I had been in war for five years, all of my adult life to date. I knew I wasn’t really welcome… people didn’t know what to do with what I had been through so I didn’t talk about any of it. I did go to therapy and got cognitive therapy. It helped, but honestly, it barely scratched the surface. There was a level of being blocked that I just couldn’t break through and I just couldn’t get past the shame. But, as I’ve continued to work with psychedelics, I’ve been able to experience my ego dissolve, I felt integrated with all others, even stretching beyond humanity and merging with all forms of life and matter. The lasting guilt and shame from the harm that I caused people because of my actions and inactions has shifted to a more understanding and forgiving stance. War still pops into my mind within the first minutes of waking every morning, but consistent therapy and ritualistic medicine sessions with psychedelics has given me the ability to rise out of the grip that guilt and shame had on me. I no longer feel like I don’t deserve to have a good life. I can see my badness, but I can see my goodness, too. I still have the number of harms I’ve done in my head, but I am focused now on living a full life, doing enough good helping others that maybe one day will balance out that number.”
The rising trend of both psychedelics and moral injury suggest a communitas evolution. The symbiotic renaissance is evidence that society is increasingly tiring of the false perception of individuality. Acknowledging the ineffable truth of our interconnectedness and interdependence on each other for safety and wellbeing is the path to healing—for moral injury and for all of us.
In sum, I leave you with these questions: If moral injury is a social wound, is depression not also a social wound? Is addiction not a social wound? How might reworking the current psychiatric model to legitimize the moral fallout of trauma change the way we understand and treat psychic pain?
*John is a pseudonym as the veteran wishes to remain anonymous.
*Even though this article speaks to the benefits of those with moral injury using psychedelics, it is no way advocated that such individuals should seek to self-medicate. In sharing his story, John* would like to make it clear that he is not advocating for others to self-experiment as he did, rather, his aim is to spark interest in researchers to find more data on this in hopes of providing relief for others.
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About the Author
Dr. Amanda Khan is a licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in California and researcher at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD). She specializes treating trauma, PTSD, and anxiety and depression and offers depth work, evidence-based treatments, and post-psychedelic integration. She has worked as an independent contractor on MAPS MDMA-enhanced psychotherapy for PTSD clinical trials for the past four years. Dr. Khan is trained ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and will serve as psilocybin therapist on the phantom limb UCSD clinical trial in the Fall. She is also currently enrolled in the MAPS MDMA Therapy Training Program. Dr. Khan serves as Chair for the Moral Injury special interest group for the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (ISTSS). She writes for Medium and Stress Points, and regularly gives talks and workshops on moral injury as well as working with gender and sexual orientation diverse people. In her spare time, she eats a questionable amount of tahini and enjoys hiking with her partner.
This week’s Solidarity Friday episode is a combination of an interview and the news, with Joe, Michelle, and Kyle being joined by author and holotropic breathwork facilitator, Renn Butler.
Butler talks about what has been referred to as the “gold standard of superstition,” the often misunderstood world of astrology, and more specifically, what he calls holotropic, or archetypal astrology: the way alignments between planets correspond to archetypes and experiences that emerge within psychedelic exploration and other non-ordinary states of consciousness. While not a perfect model, he uses these synchronicities to predict the best timing for exploration and the most probable outcomes, which will be featured in an upcoming monthly “Cosmic Weather Report” YouTube series (watch our page). He also discusses the concept of the inner healer, Stan Grof, how to be the best sitter, his upcoming online course on archetypal astrology, and The Beatles.
And with everyone back together again, some news is covered as well: California’s psychedelics decriminalization bill 519 heading to the Senate, the FDA allowing therapists being trained in psychedelic-assisted therapy to try MDMA, and in the “This Mainstream Website is Reporting This?!” Department, People Magazine reporting on Kristen Bell’s psilocybin use for depression.
Notable Quotes
“[Archetypal astrology] seems to be the only system that can successfully predict the content and timing of experiences in non-ordinary states- like a range of possibilities. We can’t predict exactly what is going to happen, but it’s very useful to have a map when we go on a journey.” “Stan had to laugh, that after years of unsuccessfully trying to find some kind of diagnostic technique (like the MMPI and the Rorschach test and the DSM categories), when they finally found a technique that could broadly predict the content of people’s experiences in sessions, it turned out to be something that was even further beyond the pale than psychedelics.”
“It’s all about human contact and trust. You just sit back quietly. If the journeyer needs something, then you respond. Otherwise, you stay out of the way.”
“[Bill Burr] just became a dad to his second child, so he’s really trying to work out some of his shit so he can be a good dad, and I thought that was also such a touching story and such a good example of healing these, I don’t know if you want to call it intergenerational trauma, but just healing family situations so you don’t repeat the same mistakes as your parents and you can be a better parent and you can see yourself a little bit more clearly. If this is how we’re going to be talking about mushrooms from now on, I’m here for it. It’s beautiful.” -Michelle
Following a B.A. in English and Religious Studies from the University of Alberta, Butler lived at the Esalen Institute in California for 2 and a half years, where he became deeply immersed in the transpersonal psychology of Stanislav Grof and the emerging archetypal astrology of Richard Tarnas. He completed training as a Holotropic Breathwork facilitator with Stan and Christina Grof in 1989, and has facilitated many workshops in Victoria, Canada. His research includes over three decades of archetypal-astrology consultations and Holotropic Breathwork workshops, and thirty-five years of Jungian-Grofian dreamwork. He has also worked in health care for three decades with physically, mentally, and emotionally challenged adults.
A former NAVY SEAL struggling with PTS and TBI is granted ibogaine and 5-MeO treatment in Mexico by an anonymous donation through VETS, and returns home with more than he could have ever imagined.
Whoever paid for me… thank you.
It was the most profound weekend of my life.
I didn’t expect too much. I guess I anticipated that this would be like most of the other “cutting edge” treatments for my traumatic brain injury and post traumatic stress: pretty cool, it’d help a bit, I’d be grateful, but that’d be about it.
But here I am, two weekends from my treatment, struggling to find the words to accurately convey how transformative this was for me—how transformative it will be for any of us who are willing to let go, really. I keep typing things and then erasing them, thinking I must sound like a crazy person—some wild-eyed zealot who’s just too far-out to relate to. But then I think… this is the most far-out thing I have ever experienced in this life and whatever crazy talk I throw at you won’t be crazy enough to cover what went down.
In other words: I expected a firecracker and I got about six pounds of C4.
I guess I’ll just stop struggling for adjectives and “as ifs” and just tell you my story. Keep in mind please, as I do, that I can’t stand hippie, new age bullshit, and while I grew up in the church, I’m not particularly religious.
So yeah… joke’s on me.
We’re first introduced to the rest of the group via Signal secure text messaging. I’m stoked to see that a classmate of mine from BUD/S, whom I hadn’t seen in almost 20 years, is going to be there, but the other guys I don’t know. Everyone seems a little held back, but that’s to be expected considering the circumstances.
We meet in San Diego on Friday afternoon for lunch, which is to be our last meal for the day, as we need to be in a fasted state for the ibogaine treatment that night. Little did I know that it would be pretty much the last thing I’d eat until lunch on Sunday.
After an uneventful drive of several hours, we arrive at the treatment house in Mexico and everything kicks into gear as a smoothly-functioning operation. The facilitators arrange the spaces, the doctor and his medical staff take urine samples, do EKGs on all of us, start IVs, and lay out some pretty impressive medical support gear for what I imagined to be a fairly low-risk event.
A photo by the author of where the Ibogaine session took place.
**Quick aside here: when I signed up for this, I thought it would be beneficial, sure, but as I started doing the preparatory work that I was sent by the organization, weirdly, things started coming up. Family issues. Relationships. Parts of me and things I’d seen and done that I’d buried out of shame or disgust. They said, “The medicine would start working before you take it,” and it really did. So by this point, I was open to something a lot more than what it appeared to be on the surface. So back to our story….
Evening approaches, and we gather around the fireplace. There’s an air of solemnity, but I can tell not all of us are bought in. Or maybe just none of us are at 100% yet. Most of us are pretty closed off, if still willing. It’s just kind of a SEAL thing, I guess.
We write down what we want to leave behind, and we take turns burning our paper in the fire. It’s quiet except for the crackle from the flames, and then the doc passes out our ibogaine doses (measured for our bodyweight) in little wooden bowls. It feels like a sacrament.
Solemnly, we take our medicine, and one by one, the facilitators lead us upstairs to be saged and smudged as a cleansing before moving to our mattresses. Curiously, the cleansing has a gravitas and weight to it that crumbles and dismisses all the shallow and thin echoes of spirituality in yoga studios and SoulCycles across Los Angeles. I receive it with humility.
Settling in on our mattresses, it’s dark. Only flickering candles and the fading light from the sun just below the ocean’s horizon remain to illuminate the room. The medical staff move quietly through, attaching heart monitor leads and O2 clips on our fingers and chests. Once they complete their tasks, I pull my eyeshade down over my eyes and lay back to wait.
Hyper-attentive to my mind and body, several times over the next half-hour, I think, “Is this it?… No… not yet…”
And then it comes.
Uber-detailed and realized visions flood my mind’s eye. They’re nightmares in 4K. I’ve never seen anything with the detail and clarity through my physical eyes that I’m experiencing now. I am completely in a dream yet 100% in my body. Unknowable machines possessed with alien intelligence build and fold out of the space like fractals from some dark pit. Strange visions that make no sense. A nightmare buzzing, like the sky is being chainsawed apart, howls with a clearly defined shape (shape?!) above my head. There’s a loud talking, without cadence or expression, just behind my left ear. It never ceases or pauses and I understand not a word. I open my eyes under the eyeshade and immediately I’m in fields of stars. I close them and I’m back in an alien, machine hell. They told us that if it gets to be too much, raise your eyeshade and you can come out of the visions, but I keep my eyeshade on. I want all of what the medicine has for me.
I begin to dry-heave. I feel hands around me, holding me in a sitting position. The retching is violent and back-to-back, four, five, eight times. Soon I’m laying down again, fighting the urge to vomit. The visions add strange, expressionless, soulless people standing and sitting around me. Again, they’re alien; there is nothing human about them. It must be hours that I try to make sense, assign meaning, figure out the visions, until, worn out, I give up. Just let them come, I think, and I let go.
Innumerable hours pass, or is it minutes? I try to move my arm and my leg, and while I can, nothing’s coordinated. It’s as if I’m operating a crane, and while I can pull one lever at a time, I can’t make the arm do anything resembling a smooth or efficient motion. I really need to piss but can’t conceive of trying to stand right now.
At some point during the night, six, seven, eight hours later, the “visionary stage” ceases, my mind quiets, and the literal nightmare I’ve been in ends. I’m in a trance-like state now, apparently what they refer to as the “contemplative stage.”
Bullshit.
All I’m contemplating is how tumbled and empty I feel. I still need to piss but can’t move. Unfocused, I feel like I’ve had a hard reset and I’m in the BIOS of the motherboard. Everything is in two-toned, 8-bit graphics. I pull off the O2 monitor and scrape off the eyeshade. I close my eyes but don’t sleep. At some point, I notice the sun rise.
A photo of where the author’s Ibogaine session took place.
Several hours later, I look around the room. All of us are glued to our mattresses in various interpretations of a full-body rictus. No movement.
Sometime later in the afternoon, around three or four I’d guess, I get up and make my way to the restroom and then downstairs. I manage to grab a banana off the counter (which takes a couple tries) and slide down to the floor and eat it. Judging from the expressions on the faces of the staff, I must look like shit… and it appears that they’ve seen this before, or maybe even experienced this themselves.
One of the facilitators comes to me, brings me to the couch, and does some “energy work” on me. I’m too worn out to resist the hippie bullshit… and surprisingly, it helps. A lot. Even though they had no meaning to me, I manage to write down my visions (not that I’ll ever forget them), then make it back upstairs to my mattress.
Several hours later, we attempt dinner. I don’t know how much the other guys manage to get down, but I think I get about two spoonfuls. There’s very little movement and lots of agonized expressions around the table.
Back to bed we go in silence, and in the dark of Saturday night or perhaps the wee hours of Sunday morning, my trance fades and I fall asleep.
When I wake on Sunday morning, I feel like a fever broke in the night. You know the feeling: You’re worn out, exhausted, but you know it’s over. The sickness is gone, leaving only relief.
Still weak, but ravenous, I make it downstairs and as my greedy hands begin to shove food towards my mouth, the facilitator kindly tells me that I still need to be in a fasted state for the 5-MeO-DMT, which we’ll be doing in a few hours.
MORE psychedelics?! I honestly don’t feel up for it. I don’t really want any more than what I’ve just experienced, but I’m in this for the whole enchilada (food metaphors? Fuck, I’m hungry) and I’m committed to following the whole program. I can tell I’m not the only one with hesitation though.
As the rest of the guys make their way downstairs, we gather again around the fireplace and the staff talks us through what’s going to happen next. One of the other guys expresses his doubts about the 5-MeO-DMT, and the facilitator reassures us that this is nothing like the ibogaine. It’s complementary, she says, a nice bookend to what we just experienced. “Hope they’re not matching bookends,” I think.
As she finishes with the brief, the two SEALs there helping out (who had gone through this before) offer a few words: “It’s like a deep dive in the ocean. You’re down 150 feet and it’s beautiful and quiet, and the water pressure is intense, and you’re at peace… but then you look over, and there’s a deep, dark abyss. If you have it in you, go down there. That’s where the jewels are.”
I think we all make up our minds at this point to go all the way, no matter what it feels like.
The staff gives us the order we are to go in and I’m number three of five. They tell us to go wait our turn by the pool, and mention it’s helpful to write what we’re feeling, so I grab my journal and head out to find a private spot by one of the fire pits around the pool. I begin to write, awkwardly, my muscles still not in agreement with my head yet, and I manage to stain the top of a clean page with: “I don’t I.” Frustrated that my hand, brain, and intentions all seem to be separate entities, I try again. This time, slowly, I write:
Ibogaine was a nightmare in 4K that I couldn’t stop or wake up from. I could make no sense of it then or now. I think I had expectations for the medicine as much as I tried not to. I have no expectations of 5-MeO. None whatsoever. It will be what it will be.
I start to put the pen down… but pause… and write:
I feel… different
It’s true. Something’s subtly very different. I write again:
I feel… present
Shocked into an introspective silence, I look inward and feel a clean openness in my soul, like all the accumulated and stored entanglements of my life have been quietly discarded, and I now only recognize they had ever been there by their absence.
Kind of stunned, I sit there with myself and savor the feeling. I haven’t felt this… free since I was probably about twelve. And as I rest in this quiet, subtle peace, awestruck… I hear our first 5-MeO guy scream from the house 50 meters away.
As my turn arrives, I’m led into the house by one of the SEALs helping out. Up the stairs, I’m smudged and saged again, and led into the room. It’s kind of sacred. Candles. Music. The doctor and facilitators have really set the space and I can feel it. Speaking in hushed tones, they sit me up on the single mattress covered in a spotless white sheet, and almost in whispers, describe what’s about to happen. The doctor shows me the vaporizer, inscribed with a medical caduceus, and the three doses of toad venom I’m about to encounter. “The profound from the humble,” I think, and then I’m inhaling the “handshake dose,” just to familiarize me with the process. Easy enough, and with no effects to speak of, I pull my eyeshade over my eyes and we move on to the first real dose. I inhale again as the doctor instructs me, holding for a count of ten, then exhale and fall backwards as instructed.
Only just as I begin exhaling, the world explodes. Gorgeous fractals in vivid primary colors, more detailed and distinct than anything my eyes have ever viewed fills… my field of vision? No… my field of consciousness. I can barely feel that I have a body. Bliss suffuses all of me (what is “me”?) and all I feel is love. I remember what the SEAL downstairs said—that if you can handle it, go deeper. Since I’m able to have these thoughts, I figure there must be room left, so I clumsily signal for another dose. Halfway in my body, I’m pulled to a sitting position and again feel the vaporizer against my lips. Drawing deeply and holding, I hear the doctor count down from five. Far away, he whispers, “Exhale…”
…and I die.
No, really. I die. And here is where words begin to fail.
I feel my body atomize and it’s GONE. I’m in a blackness that is teeming, but warm. Infinite. It’s gentle, but I sense that the gentleness, while truly the essence of this Consciousness, is not all of it, and the power… there is no word that can convey the awesome power of this place. It is infinite possibility. And I? I am a speck, a tiny ripple, a wavelet upon an Ocean so vast and deep, how could I have ever thought; how could I have forgotten that I am no less separate from this great Consciousness than a wave is seperate from the Ocean? How can a ripple be apart from the sea? I am no longer “me,” but still completely “I.” And I remember whatI am.
I feel a scream coming from deep, and it happens—from somewhere I scream, and I hear it as an observer. But here’s the weird(est) thing. Time has no meaning here, and as I hear this scream, I know that this scream is not just from “now.” It’s from five years ago, and 20, and from when I was two, and from when my parents divorced, and from Afghanistan, and from yesterday. The linear time we live in has condensed to a singularity and this scream is from my now, my past, and probably my future.
I don’t know time, space, or have any ties to what I used to know. There is only existence returned from whence I came, and then, at some point in time or space…
…I walk through the Gates of Heaven.
(If you’re still with me, believe me, I know how this sounds.)
Hands around me, bright light more beautiful than anything I have ever seen, and the purest love, acceptance, grace, and right-ness permeates my existence. The greatest feeling I have ever experienced or could possibly imagine is dwarfed by this feeling. I pull my eyeshade off, and with pure wonder and without the slightest insincerity, think, “Are we dead? Are all of you angels?” I lay there on the mattress, alternately weeping with the sorrow of what we’ve lost and laughing with the realization of what we are, and I whisper, “I am born.”
I will never be the same. I wish I could convey more of this experience to you but words are useless. Ibogaine reached deep inside of me and wrapped up all my trauma and sorrow. It wrapped it up in a dark, wet, moldy, wool blanket and when I screamed, it all came out. I walk around every day in awe, feeling this, seeing with new eyes. I didn’t learn anything, I just remembered.
My brain works now too. It’s the strangest thing. Words flow. Thoughts sizzle. Synapses fire and I can discuss, read, think, and elucidate in ways I haven’t been able to in at least 15 years. I feel smart again. All the TBI had made things slow and fuzzy, but these medicines lit up all the lobes, cortices, stems, and folds of my brain and shocked them back into activity (not a scientific analysis, of course). It was starter fluid for my grey matter.
My relationships are healing. My dad and I are reconciling. He’s so happy. So am I.
I’ve been reading everything I can get my hands on regarding this therapy and the history and use of psychedelics (I prefer the newer term, “entheogens” these days—it means to “create the divine within”).
These are not drugs. This is powerful, powerful medicine and it has the potential to do enormous good. These are sacraments that require much of you and will bring you what you need and are prepared for.
It is not the molecule, but the door that it opens.
To my benefactor: thank you. I’m going to do my part to take this newfound remembering and make the world better, and bring it to as many people as I can. And the most unexpected, beautiful realization? The Brotherhood that we fight with, for, and next to—the ones who scar us and scar with us are also the ones healing us. What an amazing thing!!!!
I never thought I’d be signing off like this, but….
In this episode, Michelle and Kyle interview head of the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, Founding Director of the new Neuroscape Psychedelics Division at UCSF, and psychedelic research legend, Robin Carhart-Harris.
He discusses what inspired his milestone entropic brain/REBUS model research and how psychedelics drop the assuredness we’ve established through our “prediction machine” brains, contemplates how science hasn’t really answered the question of why we fall ill, and dives into plasticity, trauma, germ theory, and the sensitivity of orchids vs. dandelions. He also talks about HPPD, the need to concretize abstract experiences, DMT, how being somewhat of a psychedelic celebrity has affected him, and his thoughts on Compass Pathways and the recent “land grab” and patenting stories that have been making the rounds recently.
Carhart-Harris and his team are currently researching anorexia, psychedelic sub-states (like looping), group ayahuasca use, nature connectedness, and conflict resolution (with MAPS).
Notable Quotes
“New [drugs] will come out but they’re not really different than the previous ones, and typically, with the exception of ketamine coming on the scene, they’re drugs that you take every day, and they decrease symptom severity but they don’t do that much more, really. And they don’t do that much more than placebo as well. So drugs aren’t very good and clinicians recognize that and patients recognize that, and I think it’s come about because of our failure to answer that question: Why do we fall ill?”
“If the brain is fundamentally a model of its environment, then you can’t understand the brain without understanding the environment and the context that it exists in. So I think any human neuroscientist needs to be, in equal measure, a psychologist.”
“I think it would be useful for people to understand that plasticity, in and of itself, isn’t an intrinsically healing force.”
“[In] the domain of spiritual practice [or] meditation, then maybe a wise teacher might say something along the lines of, ‘Let it be uncertain. You don’t need to hurry an explanation here. Sit with the uncertainty, explore it.’ I think maybe that would be good advice in the psychedelic space because sometimes, there can be an eagerness to explain that can create explanations that are really tenuous, rather than just to say, “Fascinating, mysterious.” You don’t have to concretize it. The classic one, maybe is the DMT experience, where it’s so far out, you’re just thinking, ‘What the hell was that? How does that happen? Where do I start?’ It’s so compelling that the natural thing to think is: ‘I did leave. I went somewhere else. It’s another place.’”
Robin Carhart-Harris is the head of the Psychedelic Research Centre at Imperial College London, focusing on functional brain imaging studies with psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, and DMT. He has over 100 published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals, including the groundbreaking “Entropic Brain” paper, which explored images of people’s brains while under the influence of psychedelics. He holds a Ph.D. in Psychopharmacology from the University of Bristol, and is the Ralph Metzner Distinguished Professor of Neurology and Psychiatry at UCSF. In July, he is coming to San Francisco to head up UCSF’s new Neuroscape Psychedelics Division.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, the news is once again skipped, with Michelle and Kyle instead speaking with Elan Hagens and Rebecca Martinez, co-founders of Portland, Oregon-based Fruiting Bodies Collective: an advocacy group, podcast, and multimedia platform with a focus on uplifting marginalized communities and shrinking the gap between industry insiders and the rest of us. Martinez is a regular contributor to the Psychedelics Today blog and was the Event and Volunteer Coordinator for Oregon’s groundbreaking Measure 109 campaign, and both serve on its Health Equity subcommittee.
They talk about their paths to creating their group and why education, access, and proper representation for everyone in the community is so important toward their next project: creating a facilitator training program that works for everyone, and is infused with justice and equity throughout.
They break down what exactly Measure 109 means to the people of Oregon, the misconceptions about decriminalization and confusion about how to access psilocybin therapy, the idea of creating different therapeutic paths for people based on their different circumstances, what risk really means to so many of us (and especially to people of color), and the problem American society has with trusting a Doctorate over thousands of years of Indigenous wisdom.
Notable Quotes
“When we’re doing this kind of work, we need to come back and realize that this stuff came from soil; it’s not just a pill. It can be a pill, and everybody can have medicine in their own way, but we need to acknowledge all these variables within it, and especially, especially Indigenous healing and Indigenous medicine- giving reverence to that and acknowledging that every chance it comes up in your mind, talk about it. Don’t be like, ‘Oh, we’ve talked about it too much.’ Every time it comes in your mind, let’s talk about it more.” -Elan “There is a privilege in being able to go to school and having a Doctorate. There is a privilege in having a parent who can support you in elementary school and have enough money to get you into college. But that does not mean that there are people who have not had all these degrees and stuff [who] do not have the same type of knowledge. So especially with psychedelic medicine, I’m always going to come back to the Indigenous wisdom- there are no Doctorates in there. There’s no titles in there.” -Elan
“We want to come out with the first batch of leaders and trainers to say, ‘Hey, here are some other options’ straight out of the gate so that the tone that has been set is one of equity and access. And it creates healthy peer pressure so that folks are like, ‘Wait, do you have a BIPOC scholarship fund? Do you have an Indigenous reciprocity fund? If not, why not? You all are talking about scale, which means you’re talking about big numbers, and we see these little groups that are putting x% of their profits, so why aren’t you guys?’” -Rebecca “We have this really sick thing here which is like this tree that is rotting from the roots and we’re clipping at the leaves and trying to make it better, but what we really need to do is compost it and grow something else here. But what is that vision? I think even if you look globally, we have so few examples of what a safe supply market would look like, and that’s so far down the road of so many conversations, culturally, that need to be had, and so many assumptions and ideas and stigmas that need to be peeled back layer by layer, that to say something to an average American voter like, ‘Imagine if we had a place where people who do use drugs could get a safe supply and know that they’re not going to overdose,’ you’re speaking a different language at that point.” -Rebecca
Elan Hagens and Rebecca Martinez are the co-founders of Fruiting Bodies Collective, a mission-based podcast, advocacy group, and multimedia platform in Portland, Oregon, serving the growing psychedelic healing community. They exist to bridge the gap between industry insiders and the eager-to-learn general public, with a focus on uplifting marginalized communities toward liberation for all. Their current project is the creation of a collectively owned, justice-centered psychedelic peer support training program for Oregon’s legal psilocybin facilitators.
Join Joe Moore and Tim Cools to discuss Psychedelic Experience. We’ll be taking questions from the audience to discuss how the website has been up and running since 2017, their recruitment and safety protocols and much more.
This special webinar will take place May 27, 2021 at 10:00AM MST
Tim is a conscious entrepreneur and psychedelic coach. After experiencing the profound transformational power of Ayahuasca in 2015, he realized his purpose is to advocate safe and responsible use of psychedelic plants and medicines: this is how Psychedelic Experience was born! He has over two decades of professional experience developing industrial-grade software in various industries, including smart homes, energy, payroll and logistics. In 2018, Tim re-trained himself as a psychedelic integration coach and guide, hosting legal psychedelic sessions and retreats in the Netherlands. Tim’s interests are software architecture, psychedelics and plant medicine, non-dualism, mindfulness, and helping people to reduce their suffering and improve their well-being.
Defining sacred reciprocity, exploring the historical use of psychedelics, and establishing ways to give back to the communities who have lost the most holding this ancient wisdom.
Nature exists in a dynamic balance of interconnected relationships and exchanges. When more is taken than returned, the results are depletion, imbalance and system collapse. Many of us in the Global North have the advantage of enjoying psychedelics simply by purchasing them or receiving them as a gift. We are no longer in direct relationship with their roots or required to know where they came from, who grew them, or how they were sourced and produced. We do not bear the historic or contemporary burdens carried by those for whom entheogens are integral to their way of life.
The psychedelic movement is surging, in part because many of us have had the privilege of direct, life-altering experiences with these substances. These medicines, whether grown or synthesized, give generously, often in the form of healing, wonder, reconnection, play and illumination. But they don’t exist in a vacuum. Thankfully, they also offer the capacity for openness—and this unlocks a door to a more nuanced and responsible conversation about where our medicines come from and the impacts of our participation in what has become, for better or worse, a global market.
Just as being good stewards on this Earth requires us to know the stories behind our food, clothing, fuel and devices, we also have a calling to ask deeper questions about psychedelics. What don’t we know about the places, cultures, ecologies, peoples, and complex histories associated with the healing modalities we venerate? In asking these questions, we can uncover practical and meaningful ways to contribute to a culture of reciprocity, sustainability and integrity, toward the benefit of all. Then we can begin to see how this reciprocity lays the groundwork for collective healing.
Sacred reciprocity offers an opportunity to help restore balance to a presently imbalanced system of extraction amidst the global expansion of psychedelics.
Reciprocity requires an exchange of value, to be sure—but it should be a meaningful contribution to which we bring our whole selves, rather than simply a bill that we pay.
What Is Sacred Reciprocity?
Sacred reciprocity is the heartfelt exchange, gratitude, and acknowledgment for everyone and everything that sustains us. In psychedelics, it is a call for those who consume plant medicines to give back meaningfully to the communities and lineages who have preserved these medicines for generations. Indigenous communities bear the impact of the expansion, along with, in many cases, oppression from local governments.
The concept of sacred reciprocity comes from the Quechua word, ayni. Quechua is the Indigenous language of the ancestral peoples of the Andes, specifically Peru. Ayni is a principle of receptivity and gratitude, marked by a lifestyle of giving back in an inhale-exhale type relationship with the natural world.
Even those who consume only lab-based substances can participate in sacred reciprocity through a number of practices detailed here.
The History of Indigenous Psychedelic Use
Here’s a quick and dirty history lesson.
So, where and from whom do our medicines come? What is their traditional use? The following list is by no means exhaustive, and it’s important to remember that many entheogens are found throughout multiple continents and their practices vary between lineages. Additionally, much history has been lost and erased through the process of colonization. We recognize the unnamed groups and honor their heritage from which modern life has been severed.
Psilocybin
Psilocybin-containing mushrooms are sacred to many indigenous communities in Mexico, especially in the mountains of Oaxaca.
Psilocybin mushrooms have confirmed Indigenous roots in Central America, most notably the Mazatec people of Oaxaca, Mexico (recall the oft-told tale of Maria Sabina and R. Gordon Wasson), as well as the Mixtec, Nashua and Zapotec peoples.
It has been theorized that ancient Greeks used a combination of psychedelic mushrooms and ergot fungus in their ceremonial brews. Evidence of ceremonial mushroom use has also been found in Africa, with Algerian cave paintings dating back 9,000 years and psilocybe mushrooms found in Central Africa and South Sudan.
Modern Mazatec people have spoken of the “Hippie Invasion” of the ‘60s and the way the commodification of sacred mushrooms reshaped their communities. Learn more about Mazatec Perspectives on the Globalization of Psilocybin in this article from Chacruna Institute.
Ayahuasca
Ayahuasca, also called caapi, yajé, or yagé, is a ceremonial drink made from the stem and bark of the Banisteriopsis caapi vine and the leaves of Chacruna (Psychotria viridis) or other botanicals. It was first formulated by Indigenous South Americans of the Amazon basin, particularly modern day Brazil, Peru, Colombia and Ecuador. In 2010, a 1,000- year old bundle of shamanic herbs with ayahuasca was found in a cave in Bolivia. Ceremonial use for the Shipibo-Conibo people does not always include chacruna leaves, which contain DMT.
While the Shipibo people are the most well-known tribe associated with ayahuasca medicine, close to 100 distinct Indigenous groups use ayahuasca. The global expansion of ayahuasca tourism (and the Western emphasis on visions and DMT) has led to overharvesting, deforestation, violence, non-Indigenous owned retreat centers and competition between shamans.
In addition, deforestation in the Amazon has reached record highs, which has a global impact on climate instability. Yet, a 2020 study found what many First Nations people have often said and may seem obvious: Collective Indigenous property ownership reduces deforestation and protects human rights, as well as cultural and biodiversity.
Peyote
Peyote is sacred to many Native American and Mexican communities. It contains mescaline.
Peyote is a sacred cactus native to what is now known as the American Southwest, Mexico and Peru. With a human-plant relationship dating back 10,000 years, this ceremonial cactus has been used in rites of passage and annual pilgrimages by Native American and Mexican Indigenous groups for millennia and is inseparable from cultural heritage for many tribes, including the Wixaritari, Raramuri, Yaqui and Cora peoples.
Peyote contains mescaline, a psychoactive substance also found in Huachuma (San Pedro cactus). For the last century, Indigenous groups have fought convoluted government policies, environmental degradation, private land ownership, poaching, mining, and urbanization.
The Indigenous Peyote Conservation Initiative is a collaborative effort to preserve peyote and ensure the survival of this sacred practice for generations to come. Learn more here.
Huachuma
Known as the grandfather of entheogens, Huachuma (which came to be known as San Pedro after the Spanish Invasion) is a cactus native to Peru and Bolivia. Its use can be traced back 4,000 years. With roots in the Andes, this medicinal plant is associated with the Chavín culture, which laid the foundations for the Inca civilization. Stone temple slabs dating back to 1,300 B.C. show a figure holding a huachuma cactus.
Huachuma contains mescaline, and while it is legal in the United States to grow the cactus for ornamental purposes, consuming mescaline is illegal. Because it grows so much faster than peyote and is more widely available, conservation and Indigenous rights advocates recommend that those who feel called toward a relationship with mescaline choose huachuma rather than peyote. In this way we can preserve peyote in solidarity with the Native American communities for whom it is a sacrament.
Rapé
Tobacco is one of the oldest and most important shamanic medicines in the Americas. It is impossible to separate Indigenous history in the Americas from the ceremonial use of tobacco, known as Mapacho. Rapé (also called Hapé or Rapéh) is a form of sacred Amazonian snuff tobacco. It is made by combining dried tobacco leaves (Nicotiana Rustica) with sacred tree ash and other botanicals and grinding it into a dust-fine powder. Blends are distinct from tribe to tribe and the shamanic process of making rapé can take several weeks. It is known for its grounding and stimulating qualities.
Tobacco is not prohibited in most of the world the way other entheogens are. However, this open legal market has created other concerns. In recent years, an explosion in global interest in rapé has resulted in many white-owned “shamanic supply” businesses popping up online, selling rapé and other Amazonian medicines on web stores and Instagram. It is wise to dig deeper when companies claim they are in partnership with local tribes or have a “trusted source.” Keep in mind that “a portion of proceeds returned to the tribes” and “mutually beneficial relationship” are undefined and potentially exploitative claims and fair trade practices aren’t always readily enforced.
Kambo
Kambo, also known as toad medicine, is a controversial ritual. Historical use of kambo is very different than the modern practice. Hunters in the Matsés tribe of Peru would coat their blow darts with the frog poison, believing that this purified the animal they shot. They would then bring the animal back to their village to be sacrificed and eaten. Kambo is quite different than other Indigenous medicines; the modern practice, as Westerners know it, seems to be a new invention. The first human use of Kambo (for sharpening the skills of hunters) was documented in 1925 by French missionaries. It was popularized in the 1980’s, by investigative journalist Peter Gorman, and numerous patents were also filed at this time.
Sourcing kambo involves first extracting the peptide-rich poison from the body of the Giant Leaf Frog (Phyllomedusa bicolor). This is done by catching the animals and then stressing them so that they secrete their poison, either by stretching their limbs or holding them over a fire. A stick is then used to scrape the gluey secretion from their skin and save it for later use. This biological material is shipped around the world to practitioners who promote it as a detoxification and immunity-building medicine.
Kambo practitioners burn holes in the skin of their clients and then apply the frog secretions to the wounds. The purging and immune response which follows is believed to cleanse the user of ailments and negative energies.
The Giant Leaf Frog is currently threatened by climate change and habitat loss (though it is currently listed as “Least Concern”). Furthermore, patenting kambo is yet an example of bioprospecting, which is a common practice in the incredibly diverse rainforests of the world and has major impacts on the Indigenous communities from which these molecules are sourced.
Ibogaine
Ibogaine comes from the root bark of the iboga shrub, which is native to Gabon in central West Africa. It has been used for centuries by people of the Bwiti religion as a rite of passage and initiation. The preservation and expansion of the Bwiti tradition and iboga medicine has a complex history involving French occupation, displacement, intertribal violence, religious suppression and political marginalization.
Medicalization of ibogaine began in the late 1930s, with decades of intermittent but promising research into its potential to treat substance use disorders, particularly opiate addiction. Its legal status remains complicated and restricted in many countries.
Global enthusiasm about iboga’s healing potential has created problems not unlike those faced by Indigenous Americans with peyote, such as difficulty sourcing medicine for their traditional use and ongoing political struggle to protect their practices.
Wild iboga is currently endangered in Gabon due to poaching, climate change, illegal export to satisfy international demand, urbanization and habitat degradation. As an alternative, iboga can be grown sustainably in greenhouses and farms, and advocates also point to the option of using semi-synthetic ibogaine from the voacanga tree instead.
DMT
DMT has been called the spirit molecule. This powerful, naturally occurring entheogen is concentrated in modern ayahuasca brew, thanks to the presence of chacruna leaves. It is also produced endogenously by a variety of plants, fungi and animals, including toads, salamanders, rats, shrubs, seeds and amanita mushrooms. Some have theorized that the human body even produces DMT at birth and death, and it has been found in the urine of people experiencing schizophrenia and other psychoses. DMT is structurally similar to LSD.
Due to conservation concerns, many in the movement advocate for the use of synthetically derived DMT to avoid contributing to habitat loss and extinction as interest and demand for this medicine grows.
LSD
Ergot fungus growing on rye. LSD is derived from ergot.
While tiny squares of paper blotted with synthesized LSD and printed with cartoon characters may seem the farthest thing from nature, it was first discovered by Swiss chemist, Albert Hoffman, working with ergot, a fungus that grows on rye.
Lab-Made Companions
Synthesized compounds such as LSD, MDMA, ketamine, 2C-B and others need not be excluded from the list of substances deserving of our gratitude. When we partake with intentionality, the journeys give generously back to us. Sacred reciprocity can be viewed as an essential element of psychedelic experience, regardless of the catalyzing substance.
Qualities of Sacred Reciprocity
Now that we have some context for the historical and contemporary issues surrounding entheogens and psychedelic medicines, let’s look at some guiding lights for giving back meaningfully.
Relational Reciprocity
Sacred reciprocity comes with the humble energy of the ask. To seek consent not only from the medicine itself, but also the elders and medicine keepers, is to set aside one’s own agenda in the interest of the larger good. Are we willing to take no for an answer? This is a nuanced question and cultural considerations are different with every entheogen and context. For example, partaking in ayahuasca may have different steps for accountability than partaking in home grown mushrooms. This is why moving at the speed of trust and cultivating lasting relationships is a responsible approach.
Proactive Sacred Reciprocity
Rather than an afterthought, sacred reciprocity can be woven into the entire psychedelic process, from decision making and intention through to integration and daily life. Think ahead and be intentional with how you want to give back. Involve your peers in this shared effort as well, and watch a culture of integrity bloom and flourish before your eyes.
Practical Reciprocity
When we talk about reciprocation, it’s important to focus on impact over intention. How does this action directly benefit the people, ecologies, and futures we seek to support? This is why we recommend backing organizations without intermediaries so that good intentions are not lost in translation.
Grateful Sacred Reciprocity
Every great medicine journey begins with gratitude. Whether in a deeply healing or rambunctiously festive environment, pausing for a few breaths or words of gratitude can have major impact on the ways we relate to the substances we consume, what we bring to the experience, and what we come away with. Thank the medicine, yes— but also thank the ancestors, wisdom keepers, protectors, ecologies, and chemists!
Humble Reciprocity
Readiness to listen and learn is a powerfully healing force. The forces of colonialism, which could have wiped out these medicines completely, are rooted in ideas of superiority and entitlement. Unwinding these attitudes is a process that comes full circle within the very medicine spaces that have been protected for generations.
The concept of ayni is one rooted in a living, dynamic relationship. If we fall into a guilt-driven, transactional mindset of repetitively taking and repaying, we begin to lose the heart of ayni. Reciprocity requires an exchange of value, to be sure—but it should be a meaningful contribution to which we bring our whole selves, rather than simply a bill that we pay.
Informed Sacred Reciprocity
Recognizing the true history of entheogenic medicine is a tough pill to swallow. We all benefit from the sacrifices of Indigenous groups who have preserved their heritage in the face of colonialism, genocide, religious persecution, criminalization and exploitation. Medicine work calls us to awareness. Awareness calls us to relationship. Relationship inspires action. This is a healthy cycle of responsibility that can have far reaching benefits for global healing, if we’re willing to engage with it.
Understanding also enables us to spread knowledge and context within our communities and gradually shift the culture at large.
Multi-faceted Reciprocity
Reciprocity considers the interconnected social, economic, ecological and spiritual factors at play within the global expansion of psychedelics. Offerings of gratitude seek to edify multiple facets of the movement—for example, financially resourcing native communities hit hard by COVID-19 and spreading awareness of entheogen conservation issues among your social circle are tangible ways to give back.
Committed to Sacred Reciprocity
To step into a reciprocal relationship with entheogens means stepping into the right relationship with the Indigenous communities where they originate. It is difficult to imagine an ethical way to consume psychedelics while ignoring the ongoing struggle of the very groups who have shared them with us.
Commit to supporting indigeous survival, thriving and self-determination. This includes the return of power, agency and resources to the original people of the land. The common psychonautic reprise that “we are all one” and desire to “stay out of politics” becomes difficult to justify while directly enjoying the traditions these people have made sacrifices to defend.
Complex global issues are at play here, so nuanced and open-ended relationships are the name of the game. We have to let go of short term solutions and quick fixes. This is a process of unlearning as much as learning—but the alternative is an old story in which we in the Global North unconsciously repeat the harms of the past in more subtle, but equally detrimental ways.
Commit to learning and honoring the lineage and preservation of medicines you consume (studying and sharing this article is a solid start).
Financially support Indigenous-led organizations* The Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative, hosted by Chacruna Institute, offers a directory of community-determined projects which you can support directly. Check it out here.
Use medicines sparingly. These substances are powerful, limited and rapidly declining. Consider ways to spread out your journey work, and make the most of each experience through self-responsibility, preparation and integration.
Grow your own medicines and choose medicines that can be sustainably grown or produced.
Dig into your own Indigenous history. Get into relationship with your ancestry through family, food, research, community and focused journey work. Solidarity reaches deeper when it hits close to home.
Advocate for drug policy reform and work to understand systems of oppression in your community.
No money? Use what you have.
Volunteer time. Many organizations and projects could use help with web-based marketing, fundraising and awareness efforts.
Talk with loved ones about sacred reciprocity.
Cultivate practices that are good for the Earth and its ecosystems in your diet, travel, and consumption habits.
Do journey work specifically focused in prayer for Indigenous protection and thriving.
Commit to the path of interconnectedness. Embrace systems thinking over simplistic solutions.
*The Chacruna Institute makes an important point here: “It is vital that members of the psychedelic community help support Indigenous groups and the traditional ecological knowledge they practice. Many organizations and individuals have a genuine desire to help, but struggle to find ways of connecting directly with local communities. Sometimes, the only option is donating to massive non-governmental organizations (NGOs) based in Western countries. Many who care about the environment and its interdependency with Indigenous lives are aware that money given to large NGOs often fails to reach the people on the ground due to the large infrastructural costs needed to run these organizations. Yet, small grassroots groups doing the most impactful work often labor to connect with people wanting to offer direct support through donations. For this reason, Chacruna has created the Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative of the Americas.”
Conclusion
With so many converging forces in the psychedelic movement, it is refreshing—audacious almost—to envision a community-led path forward that isn’t shaped by “corporadelics” or pharmaceuticals. The culture of sacred reciprocity is a first step toward healing the traumas of the past and present. The potential of the psychedelic resurgence multiplies when we embrace the inherent value of our roots and the lives that sustain this medicine.
Sacred reciprocity is a worthy cause. It requires humility and dedication. There lies before us a chance to live out a new story—one that our descendants will no longer have to spiritually bypass in order to fully enjoy their trip.
Rebecca Martinez is a Xicana writer, parent and community organizer born and raised in Portland, Oregon. She is a co-founder of the Fruiting Bodies Collective, an advocacy group, podcast and multimedia platform addressing the intersections between healing justice and the psychedelics movement. Rebecca served as the Event & Volunteer Coordinator for the successful Measure 109 campaign, an unprecedented state initiative which creates a legal framework for psilocybin therapy in Oregon. She is also the author of Edge Play: Tales From a Quarter Life Crisis, a memoir about psychedelic healing after family trauma, spiritual abuse, and police violence. She serves on the Health Equity Subcommittee for Oregon’s Psilocybin Advisory Board as well as the Board of Advisors for the Plant Medicine Healing Alliance.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Mark Haberstroh: mushroom enthusiast, contributor to our Navigating Psychedelics course, and in Joe’s words, the “person who has worked at more psychedelic retreats than anyone I know.”
Haberstroh talks about his journey from a liter-of-vodka-a-day “drinking career” to rehab, to finding his calling and spiritual path through a combination of using psilocybin for the first time at a retreat center and later, someone at a festival asking him if he used mushrooms intentionally. He talks about what he’s learned from working at so many retreat centers, from issues he’s had with unwelcome surprises and miscommunication, to ways retreat centers can improve to become more people-focused with more attention paid to the very necessary (and all too often neglected) aftercare piece.
He also talks about the importance of researching retreat centers, how different retreats could be geared towards different intentions, the power of the Lakota Sun Dance, Stan Grof’s theory of perinatal matrices, how integral community is to the healing experience, and the complicated aspects surrounding our collective focus on safety.
Notable Quotes
“It’s unfortunate, but when people don’t know about these substances, they compare them to the substances they do know, and if I told them I was doing mushrooms, they equated it to heroin and alcohol and other drugs. These things are so different, and people are so set in their ways, not only would they not listen to me, but they wouldn’t even see me. I lost a hundred pounds, I became active and healthy and happy. …Nobody saw that. All they saw or heard was that I was using mushrooms, and to them, that was bad.” “People ask me about [microdosing] and I’m like, ‘I don’t know. Personally, I don’t get anything out of it.’ We don’t have any data, the placebo effect is really, really strong. But like, whatever. Same thing about spirituality: If you’re happier, healthier, and it’s working for you? Fuck yea.”
“These things have been around forever. We just kind of forgot about them or became afraid of them.”
“I grew up playing video games. And at one of these retreats, I was walking through the woods and was like, ‘Oh my god, I grew up having nature pre-packaged and sold to me for 60 bucks. An ‘adventure,’ and I’ve been ignoring actual adventure in my own life. I need to sell my PlayStation.’”
“It’s a chaotic time right now, but I think we’re also witnessing a real paradigm shift and it’s what we need societally. We need to think about, reevaluate, and revamp the education system, the prison system, [and] the medical model that likes to put band-aids on things rather than getting to the root cause of the issues.”
Mark Haberstroh is a self-educated entheogenic specialist and amateur mycologist, working with mushrooms of all varieties for the last 6 years. He has traveled the world, visiting and working for different psilocybin retreats, educating himself on the different models currently being offered in countries where this work is legal. Originally from Alabama, he now lives in Oregon and is attending the School of Consciousness Medicine.