Category: Podcast

In this episode, special guest host Court Wing interviews Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez, MD: professor and chair of rehabilitation medicine at UT Health San Antonio; Joel Castellanos, MD: co-founder and associate medical director of the Center for Psychedelic Research at UC San Diego; and MaryAnn Welke Lesage: a long COVID survivor who reports experiencing drastic improvement in symptoms after MDMA and psilocybin therapy.

As the world slowly recovers from COVID, many people are seeing continued or new symptoms, and while much is still not understood, these symptoms are being categorized as long COVID: essentially a persistent viral inflammation causing brain fog, headaches, depression, and other hard-to-diagnose symptoms. With estimations of as many as 18% of people in the U.S. experiencing this at one point and 6.8% currently dealing with it, could psychedelics – which can decrease inflammation and reset neural networks – help alleviate these symptoms?

They discuss:

• How long COVID fits into what we already know about psychedelics, pain, and inflammatory medicine
• How MDMA or psilocybin therapy, specifically, could help
• The importance of physical medicine and rehabilitation (PM&R) and the myriad of tools these physicians have learned to work with
• Why anecdotal evidence matters towards future research

and more!

For more info, read Lesage’s article, “How Psychedelics Became Key to My Long COVID Recovery,” as well as the official paper: “Long-COVID symptoms improved after MDMA and psilocybin therapy: A case report.”

Links

Long-COVID symptoms improved after MDMA and psilocybin therapy: A case report

Time.com: The Latest Promising Long COVID Treatment? Psychedelic Drugs

PT369 – Chronic Pain and Phantom Limb Pain: Could Psilocybin Be the Answer? Featuring: Timothy Furnish, MD & Joel Castellanos, MD

BMJ Journals: Chronic pain and psychedelics: a review and proposed mechanism of action

Uthscsa.edu: Long COVID: A syndrome wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma

Uthscsa.edu: Dr. Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez discusses long-COVID disability before House subcommittee

Clusterbusters.org

Psychologytoday.com: Is Serotonin a Cause of Long COVID Brain Fog?

National Library of Medicine: The relationship between the serotonergic system and COVID-19 disease: A review

National Library of Medicine: Severe COVID-19 Pneumonia is Associated with Increased Plasma Immunoglobulin G Agonist Autoantibodies Targeting the 5-Hydroxytryptamine 2A Receptor

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Kate Pate: Ph.D. neurophysiologist; Founder and CEO of Coruna Medical; founding board member of the Psychedelic Medicine Association; and Founder of The Way Back, a company that will provide education and coaching services related to military, veteran, and first responder health – often in wilderness settings.

She talks about her introduction to psychedelics through the Heroic Hearts Project, where she later served as an integration coach and director of research, looking at psilocybin for traumatic brain injury symptoms, and how the gut microbiome changes after ingesting ayahuasca. She points out that gut health hasn’t been a focus of research, but it’s now emerging as a key indicator of physical and mental health. So, how do psychedelics, particularly plant-based ones, come into play? Are the long term shifts after an experience related to a change in the bacteria inside of us?

She breaks down what a microbiome is and how it changes based on diet; how inflammation is created and the inflammatory cascade that happens after a head injury; how toxins create a stress response similar to an allergic reaction; the frustrations of vets and the limited resources of the VA; the commonality of substance and alcohol use disorders in people coming home from service; the many nonprofits she’s worked with; and how important it is to increase science funding from the government.

Notable Quotes

“There’s a very clear shift in the microbiome population in the individuals who consumed ayahuasca, and it seems to be correlated with the improvements seen afterwards. …I do think that, especially with the psychedelics that are ingested and that come from plants, really, there’s a direct impact on the gut, and I think that can be really beneficial. …There’s an experience that lasts a certain period of time, but there are these long-term changes that persist. And what’s mediating that? Is it just the psychological experience, the spiritual experience? Is it physiology? Are we talking about shifts in the gut or other things controlling inflammation? My suspicion is that it’s all of the above, but we can’t negate the physiological component.”

“Gut health and the GI system used to be sort of like this thing that nobody really cared about. It was not the sexy, fun topic. It was sort of an afterthought of like, ‘It digests your food, that’s all it does.’ And now, it’s the star of the show. I mean, there’s so much to understand and learn there that regulates everything about our physical and mental health, that I think it’s really the target of research in the future.” 

“If you eat a Western diet and you drink a lot of alcohol, you’re likely going to have the type of bacteria that colonize the gut that thrive in those kind of conditions, which are more pro-inflammatory. So not only can the bacteria themselves signal the immune system directly, but the metabolites that they’re producing can be very inflammatory and toxic. And that can cause leaky gut, it can influence our nervous system, it can influence our immune system. And all of that can affect, ultimately, mental health, because mental health; all these anxiety and depression-like symptoms and disorders are very highly correlated with inflammatory conditions.”

Links

Thisisthewayback.com

Hunterseven.org

Heroicheartsproject.org

Sciencedirect.com: Psychedelics as potent anti-inflammatory therapeutics

Psychedelicmedicinecoalition.org

Talonsreachfoundation.org

PBabbate.org

Bigskybravery.org

Thestationfoundation.org

Warriorsandquietwaters.org

Confessions of a Hope Fiend, by Timothy Leary

Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations, by Clay Shirky

Psychedelicsandpain.org

Psychedeliceducationcenter.com: Introduction to Psychedelics for Chronic Pain

In this episode, Joe interviews neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, health tech entrepreneur, inventor, and Co-Founder & Chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuro: Dr. Dave Rabin, MD, Ph.D.

He talks about his path to psychiatry; his realization that trauma and chronic stress were primary themes at the root of most mental illness; and the creation, research and implementation of the Apollo wearable: the first scientifically-validated wearable technology designed to improve energy, focus, and relaxation based on touch therapy. The idea was born from Rabin asking himself: If we’re all starved for touch and constantly feeling unsafe, our bodies prefer a calm, soothed state, and MDMA seems to work by amplifying feelings of safety and essentially telling our brains, “you’re safe enough to heal now,” could a rhythmic vibration programmed to stimulate touch receptors and put our bodies into a meditative state fool our brains into the same perceived feeling of safety – especially if that stimulation is constant? Would our nervous systems be able to tell the difference? So far, the data seems to prove that this technology works.

He discusses what they learned from initial research about how people were using their Apollo wearables; heart rate variability and what changes it; MAPS’ Phase III MDMA-assisted psychotherapy results; the idea of the inner healer; using the Apollo in conjunction with ketamine and other psychedelics to ease pre-experience anxiety; and the concept of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy as reverse trauma, the reality that it could stop epigenetic memory, and the question of whether or not the Apollo can do this on its own.

Apollo Neuro is continuing their research by running 14 different trials right now, and if you ever participated in a MAPS trial, you’re eligible for a free wearable. If you’re just curious about trying the Apollo, you can receive $50 off using this link.

Notable Quotes

“What we’ve learned through the study of all the work that came before us was that the body actually likes to be in that state. It likes to be in this calm, soothed state, and it’s just overwhelmed and overstimulated a lot of the time and that’s why it’s not in that state. So then the research question was: If we deliver the rhythm that our bodies like to breathe at when they’re at rest (which is like five to seven breaths per minute when we’re normally breathing at 12 to 24 breaths per minute, which is stress breathing), then would the body start to automatically breathe at its ideal rhythm on its own simply by receiving the right rhythm? Is that enough? Like, if you play the right dance beat, will people start dancing on their own or will they just sit in the chair?”

“The word ‘hallucination’ implies that what you’re experiencing is not real, and I hesitate to use that word in the context of psychedelic work because ‘psychedelic’ means to reveal the mind. And so, if we put out the understanding that the revelation of what’s underneath the surface of our consciousness in our minds is not real or hallucinatory, then we might be missing a lot of the meaning of what’s actually underneath the surface.”

“If we are able to show that other safety-based treatments, whether it’s MDMA or traditional ceremonial ayahuasca or other things, or ketamine therapy, or Apollo, or soothing touch: If any of these things are inducing similar changes to cortisol receptors that we saw in that MDMA trial, then we know it’s not the drug that is inducing the healing state. It’s the safety that is amplified by the drug that produces the healing response. And that will be really, really helpful to us as a field to understand what we actually need to heal. I think the theory is [that] we need to feel safe enough to heal. This would actually prove that.”

Links

Drdave.io

Apolloneuro.com

Apolloneuro.com: studies roundup

Boardofmedicine.org

Saving Normal: An Insider’s Revolt Against Out-Of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life, by Allen Frances, M.D.

Thepsychedelic.report

The Psychedelic Report: Can MDMA-Assisted Therapy Repair our Epigenetics with Dr. Candace Lewis PhD

Your Brain Explained: Breaking Down Trauma w/ Dr. Gabor Maté & Dr. Rachel Yehuda

Apollo Neuro: Click here to get $50 off an Apollo wearable!